Fake FG Question

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Apparently, I'm just not being clear enough.

Actually, you've been very clear. The problem is you are clearly wrong about a great many things. You are the one who stated angle does not matter. You are the one who stated sticking to the sideline is an effective way to take yourself out of the game.

With a 4-man crew, when the game is being played around the left hashmark, clinging to the right sideline, for all practical purposes, tends to greatly reduce that officials contribution to the overall crew effort and capability.

Oh I see, it's suddenly changed from taking oneself out of the game to a mere greatly reducing your contribution. Unfortunately for you it remains utter nonsense. There is nothing that is going to happen during a play that I can't see just as well from the sideline as I can from the numbers. But being at the numbers certainly opens up the possibility of getting right in the middle of live ball action. Why take that unnecessary chance?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Actually, you've been very clear. The problem is you are clearly wrong about a great many things. You are the one who stated angle does not matter. You are the one who stated sticking to the sideline is an effective way to take yourself out of the game.

Sorry, Mike, when you're not trying to talk through your other end, you don't need to fudge with memory. I'm not changing anything. You may have been preoccupied counting commas, or some other silliness, and missed what I stated, so I'll copy it again for you, in full context.

"The "straw man" in this argument is the notion of "angle". Despite it's importance in many other aspects of what we do, it's simply not a significant factor in what we were originally discussing. I tried to be very clear that I agreed with starting out on a sideline is absolutely the basic position for a wing official on a Varsity level game, but that adjusting that positioning for specific formations and specific situations is absolutely NOT the WRONG thing to do. If that's your preference, fine, knock yourself out, but castigating others for differing with your assessment places you out beyond the reach of your own headlights.

As for camping on the sideline at the Youth Football level, while judgment and judicious application is always paramount, camping on a sideline at these levels is an effective way to take yourself completely out of the game." When you try and re-spin things to mean what they were never intended to suggest, you just make yourself look like a dishonest fool.

PS to Mr. Welpe; I've been waiting for a couple of years now for you to mention anything worth learning. All I've noted are your periodic attempts at being a smart-a$$, and even there you're not very creative.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by ajmc

PS to Mr. Welpe; I've been waiting for a couple of years now for you to mention anything worth learning. All I've noted are your periodic attempts at being a smart-a$$, and even there you're not very creative.

Always must have the last word I see. I've attempted serious discussions numerous times, including my previous post in this thread however your refusal to engage on an intellectual level and instead dismiss those that disagree with you as dopey are duly noted.

I realize it has probably been several years since you last worked a real football game (no being a clock operator does not count), so perhaps it is time for you to quit trying to continue the charade that you actually know what you are talking about?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Always must have the last word I see. I've attempted serious discussions numerous times, including my previous post in this thread however your refusal to engage on an intellectual level and instead dismiss those that disagree with you as dopey are duly noted.

I must have missed those "attempted serious discussions on an intellectual level". I have no authority to dismiss anything as being "dopey', but I've learned to recognize dopey fairly well.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I must have missed those "attempted serious discussions on an intellectual level". I have no authority to dismiss anything as being "dopey', but I've learned to recognize dopey fairly well.

Oddly, it was your own snarky reply to Welpe that prompted his 'teaching a pig to sing' comment.

[mj]

As a relatively new wing, you got to get out on the numbers. How else are you going to toss your flag in front of the other wing on a foul?

Only kidding, as I said I am fairly new to the wing position but the benefits of being on the sideline at the snap far out-weigh getting out to the numbers.

It sounds like we all agree except for ajmc.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by mj

As a relatively new wing, you got to get out on the numbers. How else are you going to toss your flag in front of the other wing on a foul?

Only kidding, as I said I am fairly new to the wing position but the benefits of being on the sideline at the snap far out-weigh getting out to the numbers.

It sounds like we all agree except for ajmc.

I just want to be sure I understand you MJ, are you speaking of your experience at the Varsity level, your experience at the sub-Varsity level or your experience at various levels under what might be Pop Warner or "Youth" football? Just wondering if what can be a significant difference in the skill levels and physical capabilities at those levels enter into your benefit analysis.

Does you'r advice relate to all formations, or do you consider exceptions specifically for situations where the ball is snapped from the far hash, and the formation is tight? Does the proximity of the goal line enter into your conclusion? Does the tone and temper of the game up to that point impact your decision as to how close you want to be to the formation you're actually looking at?

It's always interesting to get input from "relatively new wings" about all encompasing mechanics. As you gain more experience you may learn that adapting to what you are actually confronted with offers benefit over a "one size fits all" approach. Then again, maybe you'll be one of those "relatively new officials" who already knows everything and you won't need to keep learning things.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I realize it has probably been several years since you last worked a real football game (no being a clock operator does not count), so perhaps it is time for you to quit trying to continue the charade that you actually know what you are talking about?

What?!?!? Alf is only a clock operator?!?! No wonder he doesn't understand what we are talking about most of the time. He might be a good clock operator but I've been amazed about his lack of understanding of rules and mechanics, at least compared to other officials. That makes a lot more sense now. I won't be as harsh on him.