Rule Reference Question - OPI on try

[IMSports007]

Quick question.

Try... OPI on offense.

Do we mark off any yardage on the kickoff. A has lost the right to replay the try with the loss of down penatly.

Where can I find reference to this in the rulebook?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by IMSports007

Quick question.

Try... OPI on offense.

Do we mark off any yardage on the kickoff. A has lost the right to replay the try with the loss of down penatly.

Where can I find reference to this in the rulebook?

CANADIAN RULING:

OPI on a convert:

If the attempt is good, cancel the score and re-try the convert from the previous spot (15 on the KO) or from the previous spot minus 15 yards (regular KO).

If the attempt is NOT good, put the 15 on the KO. No option to re-try the convert.

[jTheUmp]

I doubt you'll find any specific reference to OPI-on-a-try in the rulebook, but it hardly matters.

Think about it: If you have OPI during a try, the following scenarios can occur (assuming NFHS ruleset):
1) OPI, try is converted.
2a) OPI, try is not converted. Team B accepts the penalty.
2b) OPI, try is not converted, Team B declines the penalty.

In #1, Team B will obviously accept the penalty, 15 yards + loss of down, thus ending the try.
In #2a, Team B accepts the penalty, 15 yards + loss of down, thus ending the try.
In #2B, Team B declines the penalty, thus ending the try.

Notice that #2a and #2b are, for all intents and purposes, identical.

[IMSports007]

Yea... i got that info...

Is there any way the OPI becomes a succeeding spot on a try where we would go to the kickoff and mark off 15 on the offense?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by IMSports007

Yea... i got that info...

Is there any way the OPI becomes a succeeding spot on a try where we would go to the kickoff and mark off 15 on the offense?

No. The penalty includes loss of down so the try is unsuccessful. There is no rule provision for enforcing OPI from the succeeding spot.

[IMSports007]

Thanks Welpe...

Is there any reference to this in the rulebook?

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by Rule 10.4.5

ART. 5 . . . The basic spot is the succeeding spot:
a. For an unsportsmanlike foul.
b. For a dead-ball foul.
c. For a nonplayer foul.
d. When the final result is a touchback.

Is OPI one of these types of fouls?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Is OPI one of these types of fouls?

And to pile on, is this foul one by the opponent of the scoring team?

Not everything is specifically defined and spelled out. However, OPI is only a bit different because of the LOD provision. Because of the LOD, the team does not get to replay the try.

If it makes you feel better, mark off 15 from the previous spot and then tell A they can't replay the try.

Personally, I'd be thrilled if they got rid of the LOD provision.

[ppaltice]

Originally Posted by IMSports007

Thanks Welpe...

Is there any reference to this in the rulebook?

Best thing to do in these cases is to go to the Case Book.

Rule 8-3-4: If during a successful try, a loss of down foul by A occurs, there is no score and no replay.

Rule 8-3-6: If during an unsuccessful try, a foul by A occurs, the penalty is obviously declined, the results of the play stands and there is no replay.

Case 8.3.2.C: During a try, A1 passes complete to A2 in the end zone and (b) A4 interfered with B1. RULING: In (b), the loss of down foul by A4 dictates that no points are scored, and no replay.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Personally, I'd be thrilled if they got rid of the LOD provision.

Agreed. I've come to think of OPI (in FED) as the "Drive Death Penalty", because it's the harshest punishment (in terms of yardage/LOD) in the entire rulebook.

And this discussion isn't just abstract for me either; our game last Friday featured two OPI calls, one of which was actually on a "successful" try.

(FWIW, the game in question also had 928 yards of offense, 20+ penalties, a try that was attempted 4 times, a hurdling call (by me), and USC fouls on both benches.)

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

And to pile on, is this foul one by the opponent of the scoring team?

Not everything is specifically defined and spelled out. However, OPI is only a bit different because of the LOD provision. Because of the LOD, the team does not get to replay the try.

If it makes you feel better, mark off 15 from the previous spot and then tell A they can't replay the try.

Personally, I'd be thrilled if they got rid of the LOD provision.

I'd just say read rule 8-3 which gives all the possibilities of what to do with a successful or unsuccessful try. Carrying over an OPI penalty to the kick off is not one of the options.

As for OPI, my opinion is just make it a 5 yd with LOD, just like all the other LOD A fouls.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mike L

I'd just say read rule 8-3 which gives all the possibilities of what to do with a successful or unsuccessful try. Carrying over an OPI penalty to the kick off is not one of the options.

As for OPI, my opinion is just make it a 5 yd with LOD, just like all the other LOD A fouls.

Make it a 15 yard, repeat the down foul. That way, if the pass is incomplete the offense doesn't get penalized twice and the defense actually has to make a choice.

[bkdow]

Why would you give a team a second chance to be successful on a play where they were the ones to potentially take the ball out of the other team's hands? What if the OPI (not on a try) was the only reason the defense didn't intercept and run for a touchdown.

You now want to just mark of 15 and give them another chance to replay the down that they screwed up in the first place? IMHO, I think this is a great enforcement of an OPI. I would agree with shortening the distance but they should always lose the down.

[Robert Goodman]

And I say make PI during the pass first down to the nonoffending team at the spot of the foul. OPI before the pass, just LOD, previous spot.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bkdow

Why would you give a team a second chance to be successful on a play where they were the ones to potentially take the ball out of the other team's hands? What if the OPI (not on a try) was the only reason the defense didn't intercept and run for a touchdown.

You now want to just mark of 15 and give them another chance to replay the down that they screwed up in the first place? IMHO, I think this is a great enforcement of an OPI. I would agree with shortening the distance but they should always lose the down.

If the pass is incomplete, then they can either back them up yardage and replay the down or decline the penalty and the down counts with no yardage. Why should they get *both*?

Assuming a pick-six is as unrealistic as me saying that a holding penalty kept a defender from stripping a ball and returning the fumble for a TD.