Loose ball plays and penalties..help :)

[footballref]

Originally Posted by Mike L

FBref,

the problem you're having is the same a lot of people have with less than well written NFHS rules. 2-33-1-d is one such rule. In typical NFHS rules and/or test writing fashion, a single word in the sentence can make a HUGE difference in understanding the rule/question. The word in this particular rule is "such".
Because of the word "such", d is referring back to a/b/c which define the actions that are loose ball plays and makes the runs that happen before those actions also included. The problem becomes in "d" they just say fumble, but you have to know because of "such" they are referring to a fumble behind the NZ only as mentioned in "c".

You are correct. I went over it with my white hat and that is exactly the way he described it. I all started clicking much better after talking to him

[patalia]

Originally Posted by footballref

Can you guys help me out here. For some reason I have totally confused myself about loose ball plays and penalties. Can you guys lead me in the right direction on these.

Seems like every time I start to think I get a good grasp I do something and totally confuse myself.

Can anyone simplify #1 - loose ball plays #2 - penalties associated to loose ball plays.

Thanks!

Edit ------

One thing confusing me is 2-33-1d: A loose ball play is action during (d) the run or runs which precedes such legal or illegal kick, legal forward pass, backward pass or fumble

The run leading up to a fumble is what is confusing me....I think.

Here is a scenario:

1st & 10 A from the 50. Handoff to A34. A34 runs to B30 where he is hit and fumbles. During the fumble, B55 hits A13 in the back. B12 then recovers the ball at the B28.

I am pretty sure in this situation, that A will accept the hit in the back and go 10 yards from the spot of the fumble (1st & 10 for a from B20).

What am I missing? Why am I confused so bad by this? Am I the only one?

I am quite certain that you are not the only one. It might help to remember that loose-ball and loose-ball play are not the same thing. Remember, all loose-ball plays will 'originate' behind the LOS, but could end beyond it where a running play may ensue. Loose-balls can occur anywhere on the field. You will only ever have one loose-ball play in any down, but you could have numerous running plays during one down. All action prior to a loose-ball play are part of the loose-ball play and may or may not be followed by one or more running plays.
For example, on a legal forward pass play, you have a loose-ball play scenario wherein everything that happens prior to the ball being released by the passer retroactively becomes part of the loose-ball play and the loose-ball play status does not end until the receiver or defense catches the ball; at which time a running play ensues. Any fouls by B during the loose-ball play would have previous spot enforcement (except roughing the passer which could have succeeding spot if the ball is caught and advanced beyond the LOS by A), and fouls by A would have basic spot enforcement with the previous spot being the basic spot, but also following all-but-one. Add in PSK enforcement for the scrimmage kick scenarios and you will have this mastered in no time. Good luck.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by patalia

all loose-ball plays will 'originate' behind the LOS

Also free kicks are loose ball plays.

[footballref]

Originally Posted by patalia

I am quite certain that you are not the only one. It might help to remember that loose-ball and loose-ball play are not the same thing. Remember, all loose-ball plays will 'originate' behind the LOS, but could end beyond it where a running play may ensue. Loose-balls can occur anywhere on the field. You will only ever have one loose-ball play in any down, but you could have numerous running plays during one down. All action prior to a loose-ball play are part of the loose-ball play and may or may not be followed by one or more running plays.
For example, on a legal forward pass play, you have a loose-ball play scenario wherein everything that happens prior to the ball being released by the passer retroactively becomes part of the loose-ball play and the loose-ball play status does not end until the receiver or defense catches the ball; at which time a running play ensues. Any fouls by B during the loose-ball play would have previous spot enforcement (except roughing the passer which could have succeeding spot if the ball is caught and advanced beyond the LOS by A), and fouls by A would have basic spot enforcement with the previous spot being the basic spot, but also following all-but-one. Add in PSK enforcement for the scrimmage kick scenarios and you will have this mastered in no time. Good luck.

Thanks! I spent a couple of evenings this past week on this subject and I think I have it down pretty good now. Now it is a matter of seeing it on the field.

[patalia]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Also free kicks are loose ball plays.

Right. Free kick line corresponds to scrimmage line, but thanks for the extra clarification.