Taking A Knee

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by kdf5

It's not our job to tell players what to do or to help coach. It's our job to apply the rules. If a team fakes a kneel down that is not our responsibility nor our fault and if a kid hauls off and whacks someone or otherwise does something wrong or flagrant THEN we go into action.

If I asked the coach or he tells me they are taking a knee and then he fakes it, it is my job and my responsibility to make it right!!!!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

If I asked the coach or he tells me they are taking a knee and then he fakes it, it is my job and my responsibility to make it right!!!!

If you asked the coach and he tells you he's running a reverse, and you tell the defense and he changes his mind ... what are your responsibilities there?

Let the coaches coach, let the players play, and let the officials officiate.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

If you asked the coach and he tells you he's running a reverse, and you tell the defense and he changes his mind ... what are your responsibilities there?

Let the coaches coach, let the players play, and let the officials officiate.

In our area the coaches tell us. So they obviously want their players protected. And the other coach has the class to realize the game is over and expect the same in return.

As I someone else said on this topic, it seems like officials (mostly on this page) have more of a problem with this than the coaches at the high school level. Heck at the college level many of the same procedures are followed in my experience as well.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

In our area the coaches tell us. So they obviously want their players protected. And the other coach has the class to realize the game is over and expect the same in return.

As I someone else said on this topic, it seems like officials (mostly on this page) have more of a problem with this than the coaches at the high school level. Heck at the college level many of the same procedures are followed in my experience as well.

Peace

I have 2 friends that do major college football - 1 Southland, 1 Big 12. I asked them whether they say anything to teams or if coaches say anything to them on a taking-a-knee situation.

One said, "Eff no" to the first question and "If I need a coach to tell me they are taking a knee when they line up in victory, I need a new job."

The other said, "No, never. If we did, it would be frowned upon - these guys know how to act." to the first one, and "No, why would they." to the second.

[asdf]

I have two friends that work the Big 10, one works the ACC and three that currently work the NFL.

They all say they alert the guys. They all tell me that if something happens and it's determined that preventative measures were not taken, they can make other plans for the following week.

Like it has been said before... depends on where you are working...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by asdf

I have two friends that work the Big 10, one works the ACC and three that currently work the NFL.

I will ask the next time I go to a meeting, but one of my associations have several officials in the Midwest Alliance and even one SEC official as well as 3 NFL officials, one who is an umpire. From my understanding is there is communication with the players on these situations and the official come closer and use preventative officiating.

All this does is say that different leagues, crews and associations handle this differently. This should not be a surprise. We all do not work under the same circumstances or with the same people.

Again if you do not want to do it, do not do it. Why is that hard to understand?

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I have 2 friends that do major college football - 1 Southland, 1 Big 12. I asked them whether they say anything to teams or if coaches say anything to them on a taking-a-knee situation.

One said, "Eff no" to the first question and "If I need a coach to tell me they are taking a knee when they line up in victory, I need a new job."

The other said, "No, never. If we did, it would be frowned upon - these guys know how to act." to the first one, and "No, why would they." to the second.

First of all we are not talking about what they do at the college ranks. We are talking about high school and specifically jurisdictions we work not what the Big 12 or Big Ten does.

But at the college ranks which I work there is some communications as our supervisor is a technical advisor for the Big Ten. Never have I heard that we do not communicate something to the players. Again those are college players and they have a better understanding of the consequences and getting ejected can have a bigger affect on their career.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

First of all we are not talking about what they do at the college ranks. We are talking about high school and specifically jurisdictions we work not what the Big 12 or Big Ten does.

You were... You said, "Heck at the college level many of the same procedures are followed in my experience as well." It was this to which I was responding.

college ranks which I work there is some communications as our supervisor is a technical advisor for the Big Ten. Never have I heard that we do not communicate something to the players. Again those are college players and they have a better understanding of the consequences and getting ejected can have a bigger affect on their career.

Peace

I find what I'm being told much more believable (admittedly part of this reason was that I have the actual email from them, and know them personally, and I don't personally know those that you refer to ... ) than the assumption that college and god forbid professional players need to be told that the other team is taking a knee when they line up in Victory formation. Seriously. I see this as a possible issue with 10 year olds, but the older they get, the more they GET it (both the way to act when the other team is taking a knee, AND the more serious consequences should they get a USC or ejection). To say college and pro players need to be reminded is simply ludicrous.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You were... You said, "Heck at the college level many of the same procedures are followed in my experience as well." It was this to which I was responding.

I find what I'm being told much more believable (admittedly part of this reason was that I have the actual email from them, and know them personally, and I don't personally know those that you refer to ... ) than the assumption that college and god forbid professional players need to be told that the other team is taking a knee when they line up in Victory formation. Seriously. I see this as a possible issue with 10 year olds, but the older they get, the more they GET it (both the way to act when the other team is taking a knee, AND the more serious consequences should they get a USC or ejection). To say college and pro players need to be reminded is simply ludicrous.

Actually I know many Big 10/MAC/Missouri Valley officials personally (many are my friends in person). So much so that a few have reviewed tapes of games I was involved in. When I worked the State Final one of those individuals was a crew chief in the Big 10. So whether you know someone or not is not the point. I know people too. They still follow the similar procedures. Maybe they use different language or they wait until the "victory formation" takes place, but they do talk to players. I am not talking about people that I know from a far, I am talking about people that know me on a first name basis because we have either been to the same clinics. As a matter of fact the college crew chief has worked or been assigned to work college ball in the Big 10 and other conferences while not being on a regular crew. He asked me to work college ball for years and I finally joined his crew as an alternate. I do not need to email someone; I can pick up the phone and call them.

And if you knew anything about college ball, there are officials that have been doing basic things very differently all over the country for years. The Big 10 does not always do what the Big 12 does or the SEC does not do what the ACC does. And I did not say they do this exactly how we would in high school; I said they have similar interactions.

Better yet I will ask my high school crew chief who has been doing college for a long time and since he is an umpire I will see what he tells me. Because when I worked college the other week we told players things as the winning team was in the victory formation. So I will ask specifically but you will still claim no one does this because you say so.

Peace

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

If you asked the coach and he tells you he's running a reverse, and you tell the defense and he changes his mind ... what are your responsibilities there?

Let the coaches coach, let the players play, and let the officials officiate.

Then he shouldn't have told me he was taking a knee...or he can call timeout. If he changed he mind I would be fair and tell the defense that he is "running a play."

[Canned Heat]

If this is done correctly and with good communications, 99 times out of 100 the coach and/or QB will be mentioning that they are going to a knee. I can tell you with utmost cetainty that if they tell me they're going to a knee and I tip off the D, and they don't go to a knee....there's going to be a flag. And don't start with the crap about for what?? 1) Not following an offical's directive. 2) Using deceit on an opponent. Rule 9-9-3 or a host of others if you wanted to get technical.

I make sure to have my ump tip-off and communicate to the defense that they're going down to a knee and not to do anything foolish.

While he's doing that, I tell the QB to come back and immediately down to a knee....younger HS and youth, I will also tell the coach or have my wing tell the coach.

Never once in 16 years have I had a problem with this...nor, has anyone ever ran anything other than the kneel down. This shouldn't be a big deal....if anything, especially in big rivalry or a monster blowout....this is where you keep things from getting out of hand.