Substition on Kickoff

[kd0254]

Friday night Team K lines up to kickoff following a score and extra break for hydration timeout. K lines up with 12 guys, they are my sideline so I have it right away. About 3-5 seconds goes by and just before the RFP whistle I flag K for illegal substitution.

Head coach asks "don't I have 25 seconds after the whistle" and I stated "replaced player has to leave the field immediately (which is now 3 seconds)".

You guys have a flag when I threw it or do you wait longer to flag (i.e. after the RFP). I know one thing that I would not let this turn into IP by waiting.

[umpirebob71]

I believe I would have waited for the RFP whistle. Then, there can be no question. Just my $.02.

[Rich]

My BJ wouldn't have left the field until the 12th player left the field.

Then he would go to the sideline, I'd blow the RFP, and we'd have no foul.

[Ref inSoCA]

The BJ will tell K "Count your guys" or something like that. BJ will not signal he is ready until there are 11.

This is a foul that should never be called.

[AUgrad2006]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Then he would go to the sideline, I'd blow the RFP, and we'd have no foul.

Agreed. The official responsible for the kicking team (in Georgia it would be the U with assistance from the FJ and SJ) will not signal to the R that he is ready if Team K has more than 11 players. The R will not blow the RFP if Team R has more than 11 players.

The only time I've seen an Illegal Substitution flag on a kickoff is when K thought they only had 10 and sent a 12th guy on after the RFP and right as the ball was about to be kicked.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by kd0254

Friday night Team K lines up to kickoff following a score and extra break for hydration timeout. K lines up with 12 guys, they are my sideline so I have it right away. About 3-5 seconds goes by and just before the RFP whistle I flag K for illegal substitution.

Head coach asks "don't I have 25 seconds after the whistle" and I stated "replaced player has to leave the field immediately (which is now 3 seconds)".

You guys have a flag when I threw it or do you wait longer to flag (i.e. after the RFP). I know one thing that I would not let this turn into IP by waiting.

CANADIAN MECHANIC:

We don't KO with more or less than 12 players for each team.

However, if K wants to form a huddle to surprise R with a kick, we do not interfere and K is not afforded us making sure they have exactly 12. In this case, a flag for TMM could occur.

[With_Two_Flakes]

If there is one play that we can make sure that it starts legal, then this is it. The crew do not let it happen until and unless we have 11 against 11.

As RefinSoCA said above, keep telling them to "count your guys" and only signal ready when A are OK. Ditto R won't blow the RFP till B are OK.

[GoodwillRef]

[QUOTE=Ref inSoCA;690649]The BJ will tell K "Count your guys" or something like that. BJ will not signal he is ready until there are 11.

This is a foul that should never be called.[/QUOTG

Great point.

[MD Longhorn]

I agree with all of the above posts. Don't let a kickoff start without the right number BEFORE saying you are ready.

However... the rule sited is wrong as well. A "replacement" player must be REPLACING someone. Unless they started with 11 and someone else ran out there after, all you have is 12 players.

[Robert Goodman]

Does it matter whether any of the 12 were on the field for the previous down, or is it exactly the same if all 12 came off the bench?

[bkdow]

I agree with the concensus...this should never be flagged unless you have given them many verbal warnings about it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Does it matter whether any of the 12 were on the field for the previous down, or is it exactly the same if all 12 came off the bench?

If you track who's on and off between extra points (or FG's) and a kickoff (or during halftime!), you're the first to do so. I don't know how an official would have the information you're asking about... ever.

[parepat]

I remember the first time I was confronted about this practice. I blew my whistle after the RFP and indicated that the kicking team only had ten. An "assistant" asked me "why did you let them know...". I said "coach we start with 11." He then identified himself and told me "that's good officiating". I found out that was an NFL official and was just testing/teasing me. I'm glad I didn't act like a jerk.

[jemiller]

Everybody on our crew is required to count to 11. If it is anything else for a kick-off we delay the RFP until we have the required number. Preventative officiating...