No mans land??

[BoBo]

The offense lines up with the wing back in no mans land. He is next to the tackle with a player outside of him that is clearly on the line.

He is not really on the line of scrimmage and yet is not clearly in the backfield.

Causing some confusion to the defense as to how the offense is lining up.

Is this a penalty for not aligning properly and the player being definitively either on the line or not?

Do you flag it? Does it matter if its a running play or passing play?

Please include a rule reference or case book reference please.


Whether that player is eligible or not.

[jemiller]

By the position that you noted he causes an illegal formation, as he is not positioned himself as a back or on the line. He has to do one or the other.

If he cut blocks, clips, blocks from the back, etc. in the free blocking zone he would be guilty of an illegal block as he was not on the line at the snap.

If he goes out for a pass, and is thrown to he has now caused offensive pass interference as he was down field and is not an eligible receiver.

You could have a multiple fouls on the offense depending on what he does obviously. IMHO Jim

[BoBo]

So are you throwing a flag at the snap for illegal formation?

5 yards from previous spot repeat the down.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by BoBo

So are you throwing a flag at the snap for illegal formation?

5 yards from previous spot repeat the down.

yep.

[BroKen62]

If he goes out for a pass, and is thrown to he has now caused offensive pass interference as he was down field and is not an eligible receiver.

Didn't they change that to illegal touching by an ineligible?

[jemiller]

In this case, the player is an ineligible receiver due to his position. He does have an eligible number for a back. So I think that the offensive pass interference would be the proper call vs. illegal touching by a lineman. Jim

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by jemiller

In this case, the player is an ineligible receiver due to his position. He does have an eligible number for a back. So I think that the offensive pass interference would be the proper call vs. illegal touching by a lineman. Jim

Don't tell us what you think. Provide a rule reference.

[Robert Goodman]

Unfortunately a player who's supposed to be in the slot gets no assistance from the hand signal by the wing official. But depending on the level of play, you may want to warn a player who seems to be lining up in that position but is not legally off the LOS. Still, you can never be sure until the ball is snapped whether that player is going to shift.

What if all the players of A come to a stop for a second with that player in no man's land, and then he goes in motion at an angle backward but is only 2 yards behind his LOS when the ball is snapped? It's illegal motion, but did he become an eligible receiver or not?

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by jemiller

In this case, the player is an ineligible receiver due to his position. He does have an eligible number for a back. So I think that the offensive pass interference would be the proper call vs. illegal touching by a lineman. Jim

7.5.10 SITUATION A: During a forward-pass play in which the ball crosses the
neutral zone, A1, an ineligible receiver, is illegally downfield and: (a) B1 illegally contacts him with an elbow; or (b) A1 blocks B1. RULING: In (a), the personal foul by B1 and A1’s foul for being downfield combine to make a double foul and the down will be replayed. The contact by B1 is not defensive pass interference because A1 was an ineligible receiver. Defensive pass interference may occur only against eligible receivers. Had there been no contact and had ineligible A1 touched such a pass, the result would have been illegal touching. In (b), it is amultiple foul for an ineligible illegally downfield and also offensive pass interference.
(7-5-6a; 7-5-13; 10-2-1,3)

[BoBo]

We told the coach a couple of times in the first quarter and i spoke with the players in the huddle real quick. Finally the second quarter we flagged it. And as luck would have it is the play they score on and we now become the bad guys. The coach was upset with his kids and he knew what we called and understood. After that amazingly no more problems the rest of the night.

Fans did not understand as they never seem to do.

Some people think it is probably a ticky tack call but the defense was making adjustments to their star player and were confused as his position was not easily identifiable whether a back or covered up.

I feel we gave the team fair warning and a chance to correct it.

Thanks for all the input.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BoBo

The offense lines up with the wing back in no mans land. He is next to the tackle with a player outside of him that is clearly on the line.

He is not really on the line of scrimmage and yet is not clearly in the backfield.

Causing some confusion to the defense as to how the offense is lining up.

Is this a penalty for not aligning properly and the player being definitively either on the line or not?

Do you flag it? Does it matter if its a running play or passing play?

Please include a rule reference or case book reference please.


Whether that player is eligible or not.

CANADIAN RULING:

It is illegal formation to cause confusion if one is or is not on the line. Having said that, Canadians are minimalists, so we would be looking at talking to this player telling him that he needs to position himself better.

At most youth levels, an astute official recognizing the I.F. will observe B's defensive movements during the play and if they're confused, the official has the authority to throw the flag. If B is not confused (which is most likely), then the official should talk to the player as indicated above). It's more likely that B will be confused if the play is a passing play.

[parepat]

two things:
1. I think this was a good "talk to". Give them a chance to rectify the situation.
2. THis is a call where we have been advised to "find a blade of grass". That is to say that if you can make them legal do so. In this case, if you can find a blade of grass of separation between the back and the lineman, do so.

In the end however, if they won't help themselves out by correcting the allignment, then hit em.