Losa Ball in own endzone NF case book 8.5.1 Sit D

[kfo9494]

Play-- It is first down and 10 on A's 3. Runner A1 fumbles on his 2-yard line. B1 intentionally kicks the loose ball which is: (a) on A's 2; or (b) in the end zone. the ball then goes out of bounds behind the goal line. RULING; Undoubtedly, Team A will decline the penalty in (a) and take the touchback. A will accept the penalty in (b) because declining it would give B a safety.
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In (b) is the the goal-line the spot of enforcement for measuring the penalty?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by kfo9494

In (b) is the the goal-line the spot of enforcement for measuring the penalty?

Ask yourself first, what type of play is this? Apply All but one and you have your answer.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Ask yourself first, what type of play is this? Apply All but one and you have your answer.

I think you also need 10-4-7.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I think you also need 10-4-7.

But the run did not end in the end zone.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by kfo9494

Play-- It is first down and 10 on A's 3. Runner A1 fumbles on his 2-yard line. B1 intentionally kicks the loose ball which is: (a) on A's 2; or (b) in the end zone. the ball then goes out of bounds behind the goal line. RULING; Undoubtedly, Team A will decline the penalty in (a) and take the touchback. A will accept the penalty in (b) because declining it would give B a safety.
>

In (b) is the the goal-line the spot of enforcement for measuring the penalty?

I don't work FED, but in A, if the penalty is declined, is this not also a safety? Without the penalty, you have a fumble in the field of play that travels out of bounds in the endzone. Safety, right?

[Welpe]

Mike, it's the same as in NCAA. An illegal kick on a grounded loose ball puts a new force (impetus) on the ball. B is responsible for putting the ball in the endzone.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Welpe

But the run did not end in the end zone.

Oops. Misread that.

[AUgrad2006]

Originally Posted by kfo9494

In (b) is the the goal-line the spot of enforcement for measuring the penalty?

To answer your question, no. As Welpe said, the first thing to ask is what type of play. This is a loose-ball play as defined in 10-3-1c (fumble behind the LOS). The basic spot for a penalty occurring during a loose ball play is the previous spot per 10-4-2b. The foul was not by the offense so all-but-one does not apply. Therefore, it would be 1st-and-10 for A from their 18 yard line.

[gtwbam]

kfo9494
In the second part of your question, where A1 fumbles on his 2 yard line.
Then B1 intentionally kicks the loose ball which is already in the end zone, then goes out of bounds behind the goal line.

The ruling is based on the fact that the Fumble was the Force that put the ball in the end zone. Loose ball Play. Since the force which put the ball in the end zone is A1's fumble, the result of the play is a safety. Team A will undoubtedly accept the 15 yard penalty which is enforced from Teams A's 3 yard line, which is the previous spot. Hope that helps.

[kfo9494]

Guys thanks alot!
I thought I was getting along well in the rules and then I find out that I do not know as much as I first thought.
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So- it is a loose ball play and the penalty is from the Previous spot. The fact that A lost possession behind the previous spot does not apply.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by kfo9494

So- it is a loose ball play and the penalty is from the Previous spot. The fact that A lost possession behind the previous spot does not apply.

Actually that fact is quite relevant as that is what makes this play a loose ball play and not a running play.

[ajmc]

[QUOTE=kfo9494;686883]Guys thanks alot!
I thought I was getting along well in the rules and then I find out that I do not know as much as I first thought.
QUOTE]

Welcome to the club. We've been looking for a place to hold an annual convention, but can't seem to find a stadium big enough to hold our growing membership.