What is the foul?

[bigjohn]

because if A22 participate and he is ruled an IS then it is IP a 15 yard penlaty. If it is IF then it can only be a 5 yard penalty. Anytime there is possible hideout type play being run it should be 15! That is my logic, Mike and thank you for the actual rules discussion.

[Welpe]

Well maybe comb bound. You're a tough read.

[bigjohn]

I am a computer guy Welped! They are stored on a word doc on my flash drive!

Actually they are still on the NFHS server in my private message inbox!

[asdf]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

I am a computer guy Welped! They are stored on a word doc on my flash drive!

Actually they are still on the NFHS server in my private message inbox!

Ah yes.... along with the Dear Hank files.......


Your claims hold as much water as any one of us claiming to have a portfolio of notes from your players expressing their doubts of your football knowledge.

Our claims would be much more believeable..........

[bigjohn]

Except there are officials reading these posts that know I tell the truth because they sent me those private messages.

I will not throw them under the bus!

[asdf]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Except there are officials reading these posts that know I tell the truth because they sent me those private messages.

I will not throw them under the bus!

That's right, Mr. Integrity.

The only people you throw under the bus on the FED site are people you do not agree with, like the following.....

1) Your Head Coach, players, & parents who forced you to leave a player in the game even though you admitted to the board that the player was using a dangerous (for your player) blocking tactic. (The rules don't matter when it comes to protecting your QB)

2) A White Hat in one of your playoff games who you called a liar.

3) A crew from one of your games last year. You posted some video of plays you disagreed with from a game a couple of days prior. When called on it, you threatened to "take your helmet and cleats go home." That hissy fit lasted about two days.

Other than that, you are a top notch, classy, no nonsense kind of guy.

[bigjohn]

1, HAHA, I said he used his head and no one called it. It is true.

2, IW no one heard

3 film from a game with no comment just, you call it.

Sounds like you got a "Book" on me too though ASDF.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

because if A22 participate and he is ruled an IS then it is IP a 15 yard penlaty. If it is IF then it can only be a 5 yard penalty. Anytime there is possible hideout type play being run it should be 15! That is my logic, Mike and thank you for the actual rules discussion.

You should consider reading the enforcement penalty for your rule 3-7-5. It is not a 15 yd penalty. It is a 5 yd, live ball illegal substitution penalty. To achieve the 15 yd status, the covering official would have to determine the practice was deceptive (see 9-6-4d) which simply is not going to happen if the defense covers the player.
Why no answer regarding the request for explanation on how it is deceptive if the defense covers him?

editted to add : I too am bored at work, so no feeling like the Lone Ranger there, Welpe. BTW, sick of Texas yet?

[bigjohn]

No, I understand that but if 3-7-5 makes A22 an illegal substitute and then he participates in the play it is IP, NO?

15 yard penalty!

That has been my claim the entire time.


ART. 3 . . . No replaced player, substitute, coach, trainer or other attendant
shall hinder an opponent, touch the ball, influence the play or otherwise participate.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

No, I understand that but if 3-7-5 makes A22 and illegal substitute and then he participates in the play it is IP, NO?

15 yard penalty!

That has been my claim the entire time.


ART. 3 . . . No replaced player, substitute, coach, trainer or other attendant
shall hinder an opponent, touch the ball, influence the play or otherwise participate.

Not necessarily. That's why the NFHS saw fit to create 3 seperate rules for the situation, 3-7-5, 7-2-1 and 9-6-4d. Clearly they do not want something like failing to come within the 9 yd marks to rise to the level of the very onerous 15 yd penalty.
And still no explanation of how the covered player is deceptive.
And your article 3 quote deals with players who are not supposed to be on the field, not the question at hand. What we are discussing is the process of illegally substituting a player. That's why the foul is called an illegal substitution rather than illegal substitute. One is a process, the other is a person.

[bigjohn]

Just because someone on defense is standing over there doesn't mean he is ready for a player to step in off the bench. Now in my OP, if the sub gets to the numbers and gets set and the defender is covering him I can see the latitude in not calling it especially if it is a run play and the sub isn't even involved in the play. If the ball is thrown to that receiver on a quick pass and the defender is not prepared for the play you have to say A gained an advantage by breaking the rule. If the sub just gets one step on the field and then catches a quick spot pass it is deception by design.

[bigjohn]

Here are the 2 situations that started all of this.

c) 2/10 from A's 20. At the last second before the ball is snapped A88 realizes he should be on the field and steps on the field just inside the sideline and catches a quick pass from the QB and runs down field and scores a TD.

Do we have a foul? If so what is the foul?
Where will the yardage be marched off from and how many yards?
What will be the next down and distance and from where?

D) 2/10 from A's 20. At the last second before the ball is snapped A88 realizes he should be on the field and steps on the field just inside the sideline and catches a quick pass from the QB and runs down field and gets tackled at B's 10 yl.

Do we have a foul? If so what is the foul?
Where will the yardage be marched off from and how many yards?
What will be the next down and distance and from where?

What I'm trying to get at here is where is the penalty enforced from and why during a running play, loose ball play and also for a player/coach that comes off the sideline or also a deceive play.
Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.