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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 25, 2009, 11:23am
Ref Ump Welsch
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Weird Freshman Play

I'll try to do the scenario some justice, but if it isn't clear, I'll be happy to make clarifications. The scene:

4th down (and I can't remember how many yards) for A, and they decide to punt. The punter somehow punts it so it never really left the ground, and the ball becomes loose behind the LOS. While the ball is loose, white hat throws a flag for a block in the back on B57, in A's backfield. B recovers the loose ball and gains possession just short of the LOS. Since PSK didn't apply because the kick never went past the LOS, the white hat marked off 10 yards from the spot of the foul and awarded possession to B.

I believe the white hat had it right, even after bringing the whole crew in to figure it out, but wanted to see what comments, if any, folks on the board had. Thanks.
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Old Sun Oct 25, 2009, 01:19pm
MRH MRH is offline
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I'm going to disagree.

The penalty is during a loose ball play and if K accepted the penalty the down is replayed unless penalty enforcement gives them a first down.
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Old Sun Oct 25, 2009, 03:02pm
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Don't ya just love the kicking game!

Unlcear descritption in my mind but here are some things to consider:

If the punter kicked the ball off the ground, (your descriptionis a bit unclear) then we also need to factor in an illegal kick on the play.

If you factor out the illegal kick (not sure if this happened or not from description) then you do as MRH says, penalize the BIB from previous spot.

Since R (B) fouled before gaining possesion they would not get to keep the ball.

Something else to consider. If the BIB was an attempot to push or pull an opponent in an attempt to get at the loose ball then this contact may be legal and not a BIB.

So, in the end, without the illegal kick and without the BIB we may have B ball 1st and 10.
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Old Sun Oct 25, 2009, 09:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch View Post
While the ball is loose, white hat throws a flag for a block in the back on B57, in A's backfield. B recovers the loose ball and gains possession just short of the LOS. Since PSK didn't apply because the kick never went past the LOS
The ball has to cross the expanded neutral zone not LOS. The foul must occur beyond the expanded neutral zone not behind the neutral zone.
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Old Mon Oct 26, 2009, 07:51am
Ref Ump Welsch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehat View Post
Don't ya just love the kicking game!

Unlcear descritption in my mind but here are some things to consider:

If the punter kicked the ball off the ground, (your descriptionis a bit unclear) then we also need to factor in an illegal kick on the play.
I'll clarify...the punter didn't kick it off the ground. The white hat described it as if the punter kicked it off his toes and the ball went straight down to the ground after it touched his shoe. I couldn't see the whole thing because I was LJ in 4-man crew and was back with the returner about 40 yards downfield.
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Old Mon Oct 26, 2009, 08:11am
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If the punter kicked the ball off the ground, (your description is a bit unclear) then we also need to factor in an illegal kick on the play.

Keep in mind, a drop kick is legal in a scrimmage kick scenario per NFHS rules. (Just throwing this out there...not that that's what happened)
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Old Mon Oct 26, 2009, 08:41am
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I am going to agree with MRH. Foul occurs during a loose ball play and PSK does not apply as the foul is behind the ENZ. Penalty is 10 yards from previous spor and replay the down.
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Old Mon Oct 26, 2009, 12:28pm
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Why is he calling a BIB on B?

9-3-5b...A player shall not clip or block an opponent in the back except:

b. Using hands and arms to contact an opponent above the waist in warding off a blocker, or when attempting to reach a runner, or catch or recover a loose ball which he may legally touch or possess.

B is certainly allowed to catch or recover this punt.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 27, 2009, 12:08am
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Whilst BIB's by B are rare, Ref Ump Welsch did say "Wierd freshman game". So I might well believe that some numbnut on Team B threw a BIB just for the heck of it and not as part of his attempt to recover the loose ball.

If so, then the enforcement would be 10 yds from the prev spot and replay 4th down unless the 10 yds gives A a new 1st down.
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Old Tue Oct 27, 2009, 07:07am
Ref Ump Welsch
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Yeah, it was a weird game indeed. We had several USC and personal foul penalties throughout the game, ejecting a total of 4 players. All of these USC's and most of the personal fouls were on scoring plays. The aforementioned punter also was so inconsistent that I even had a first touching of a line drive punt 15 yards from the LOS and 20 yards from the returner. The holding penalties were not just your covert holding attempts, but the mugging/tackling type holds. It was absolute chaos.
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