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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 18, 2009, 08:11pm
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kick off

on a free kick, R blocks K below the waist at the 50 yard and then the ball goes past the goal line for a touchback. where is the penalty enforced from? i would say 15 yards previous spot and re-kick. is this correct?
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Old Sun Oct 18, 2009, 08:34pm
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Rule 10-4
ART. 5 . . . The basic spot is the succeeding spot:
a. For an unsportsmanlike foul.
b. For a dead-ball foul.
c. For a nonplayer foul.
d. When the final result is a touchback
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Old Sun Oct 18, 2009, 09:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HLin NC View Post
Rule 10-4
ART. 5 . . . The basic spot is the succeeding spot:
a. For an unsportsmanlike foul.
b. For a dead-ball foul.
c. For a nonplayer foul.
d. When the final result is a touchback
Would this not be trumped by 10-4-2?
10-4-2 ... The basic spot is the previous spot:
b. For a foul that occurs during a loose ball play as defined in 10-3-1.

10-3-1 ... A loose ball play is action during:
a. A free or scrimmage kick, other than those defined in 2-33-1a
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Old Sun Oct 18, 2009, 09:51pm
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i would say loose ball, rekick at R45 if accepted.
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Old Sun Oct 18, 2009, 11:08pm
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ump 33-

So if this had been a dead ball personal foul instead of live ball BBW and the kick entered the EZ for a touchback, would you make K rekick since it was a loose ball play or would you enforce from the succeeding spot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HLin NC View Post
Rule 10-4
ART. 5 . . . The basic spot is the succeeding spot:
a. For an unsportsmanlike foul.
b. For a dead-ball foul.
c. For a nonplayer foul.
d. When the final result is a touchback
Quote:
Would this not be trumped by 10-4-2?
10-4-2 ... The basic spot is the previous spot:
b. For a foul that occurs during a loose ball play as defined in 10-3-1.

10-3-1 ... A loose ball play is action during:
a. A free or scrimmage kick, other than those defined in 2-33-1a
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Old Sun Oct 18, 2009, 11:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HLin NC View Post
So if this had been a dead ball personal foul instead of live ball BBW and the kick entered the EZ for a touchback, would you make K rekick since it was a loose ball play or would you enforce from the succeeding spot?
I don't know. Does a loose ball play include action which occurs after the ball becomes dead?
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Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 12:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman72 View Post
i would say loose ball, rekick at R45 if accepted.
I agree. This is a loose ball play and all fouls during loose ball plays (except non-player and unsportsmanlike) are enforced from the previous spot.
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Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 07:16am
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HLin NC -

2-41-1 ... The basic spot is a point of reference for penalty enforcement. It is the previous spot for a loose-ball play unless the only accepted penalities meet the requirements of a PSK foul and the end of the run for a running play.

If this was scrimage kick and R blocks K below the waist at the line of scrimmage after which the ball/kick enters the endzone (touchback), would you use 10-4-5b and enforce from the suceeding spot? How does this differ from the OP other than a Free Kick versus a Scrimmage Kick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HLin NC View Post
ump 33-

So if this had been a dead ball personal foul instead of live ball BBW and the kick entered the EZ for a touchback, would you make K rekick since it was a loose ball play or would you enforce from the succeeding spot?
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Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 07:24am
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Any foul occurring before the ball crosses the goal line is during a loose ball play and will be enforced from the previous spot, so you march off 15 yards against R and rekick from the R-45. If the foul happens after crossing the goal line then you march it off from the succeeding spot making it 1/10 from the R-10.
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Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 07:32am
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ART. 7 . . . A free kick is not repeated unless:
a. A foul occurs prior to a change of possession and the penalty acceptance
requires a replay of the down.
b. There is a double foul.
c. There is an inadvertent whistle during the kick.
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Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 08:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ump33 View Post
HLin NC -

2-41-1 ... The basic spot is a point of reference for penalty enforcement. It is the previous spot for a loose-ball play unless the only accepted penalities meet the requirements of a PSK foul and the end of the run for a running play.

If this was scrimage kick and R blocks K below the waist at the line of scrimmage after which the ball/kick enters the endzone (touchback), would you use 10-4-5b and enforce from the suceeding spot? How does this differ from the OP other than a Free Kick versus a Scrimmage Kick?
It doesn't, ALL fouls that occur during either a free, or scrimmage, kick are loose ball fouls, with the exception of PSK fouls (which only apply during scrimmage kicks).

In the original question, the offended teams choice would be to accept the penalty and replay the down after enforcing a 15 yard penalty from the previous spot, or accept the result of the play, which would be a touchback.

If the foul had been a dead ball foul enforcement would be from the succeeding spot, which would be the R 20 yard line, following the touchback. Rekick would not be an option.
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Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 05:25pm
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I agree with AJMC. Nuff said, Jim
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Old Thu Oct 29, 2009, 12:28pm
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I know I'm late to this party, but I had this exact situation occur earlier this season (the second time I ever worked as R). My umpire and I on the field came up with this resulting in a rekick, since it happened during the looseball play. I brought it up in my class the following week, and the class agreed that it's a rekick.
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Old Thu Oct 29, 2009, 01:00pm
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Wow!!!

Holy cow, you guys think of the good ones. Looks like there are a lot of ways to interpret this.

Seems to me the question is whether 10-4d trumps 10-4-2b or vice versa. They conflict, so which one wins?? By rule there can not be a play that results in a touchback that is not a loose ball play (although I realize 10-3-1 only speaks of kicks). Any non-loose ball play in A/K's end zone must be a safety.

Just some more fodder for the conversation. I'm not suggesting anyone is right or wrong.
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Old Thu Oct 29, 2009, 01:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRod37 View Post
By rule there can not be a play that results in a touchback that is not a loose ball play (although I realize 10-3-1 only speaks of kicks). Any non-loose ball play in A/K's end zone must be a safety.
A snaps at the 50. A24 runs to B's 45 yard line and fumbles, B50 pick up the ball and runs to the A 2 yard line, fumbles and the ball rolls forward and goes out of bounds beyond the goal line. This is a safety?

This free kick enforcement isn't hard. It is a loose ball play until a running play starts. Fouls during the loose ball play are enforced from the previous spot.
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