Penalty enforcement

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Mb, nice clarification...

Assuming this question is answered I am wondering if anyone else out there feels the need for a change In NF rules pertianing to fouls by the offense behind the previous spot. Like your garden variety holding by A on a pass play, which could end up being about a 20 yard penatly when enforced from the spot according to the ABO.

I bring it up because I think the NCAA rule is much more reasonable in that it takes such fouls behind the previous spot and enforces them from the basic spot (previous spot in this case) instead of the spot of the foul.

Seems like we are "over penalizing" a bit the way we do it in NF.

I'll point out that Fed's enforcement spot is the more traditional one in this case among USAn codes. Before the 1970s, NFL & NCAA penalized it that way too. NFL changed first, I don't remember when NCAA followed.

You could say that if the passer could avoid an intentional grounding call yet produce an incompletion intentionally, if he saw the rusher coming after the hold or trip or whatever, then he could have avoided a loss anyway. I guess that's the philosophy of enforcing from the previous spot.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I guess that's the philosophy of enforcing from the previous spot.

I think it's more so holding calls don't turn into 15 yd penalties essentially when you penalize them from the spot of the foul behind the LOS. That's a drive killer as well, which they prob wanted to eliminate.

[Forksref]

There always seem to be some inequities to be found. Correct me if I am wrong, but in NCAA, let's say the QB is chased 15 yds behind the LOS and a lineman is flagged for holding at that spot. Will the foul be enforced from the previous LOS (only 10 yds lost)? That doesn't seem equitable.

I think the overall concept in FED is that yardage gained legally (prior to the spot on the field where there is a foul) shall be retained. Example: end of run = A40 and a hold is flagged at A35, therefore enforce from the 35 because yardage gained up to the 35 was gained "cleanly."

Last night we had 2 holding fouls on the offense that were enforced from the end of the run, which I think is a little unusual. The holds were beyond the end of the runs. In this case the concept is the ball was never advanced that far so why give the offense the benefit of those yards before marking off the foul?

Offsetting fouls seem inequitable sometimes too.

[Canned Heat]

We had one last night too. QB was scrambling for his life and his RG tackled a LB about 10 to 15 yards behind the LOS...which was their own 35 or so. By the time we got done, we were looking at a "half-the-distance" penalty that ended up around the 10 yard line. That was a killer. Although they were done already anyway (winning team had 48 by halftime...ended up 55-6).

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Canned Heat

We had one last night too. QB was scrambling for his life and his RG tackled a LB about 10 to 15 yards behind the LOS...which was their own 35 or so. By the time we got done, we were looking at a "half-the-distance" penalty that ended up around the 10 yard line. That was a killer. Although they were done already anyway (winning team had 48 by halftime...ended up 55-6).

What about the defensive player who has done his job forcing the offensive player to retreat 10-15 yards behind the LOS? When an offensive player holds back there (because he has not been able to do his job) why would you consider rewarding him by marking the penalty for his foul, from way back at the previous spot?

How is that fair to the defensive player? Why wouldn't it be a technically strategis idea, to hold every defensive player when a QB tries to outrun his opponents by retreating? They wouldn't be losing any more yardage than they were willing to give up through retreating, AND if the penalty is accepted they the down to do over.

If you want to equalize rles codes, it might be better to bring NCAA and NFL back in line with NFHS.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bossman72

I think it's more so holding calls don't turn into 15 yd penalties essentially when you penalize them from the spot of the foul behind the LOS. That's a drive killer as well, which they prob wanted to eliminate.

You're calling it a "15 yd penalty" on the basis of the distance the new spot gets left from the previous spot when the penalty was from 5 yds behind the previous spot -- but you're just arbitrarily choosing the previous spot as the point of comparison in calling it that. If the ball was held 5 yds. behind the spot of the foul at the time, you could call it a "5 yd penalty" relative to that spot. If the down ended with a completed pass and a tackle 60 yards downfield, how big do you call the penalty then?

Incidentally, at the time NFL & NCAA started to change these enforcements, illegal use of hands was a 15 yd. markoff from the 3-and-1 spot against either team in NCAA, or against the offense by NFL! They reduced the distance, made the spot less hurtful, and increased the permissible use of the hands, all in a few years.

[jemiller]

Oh I still know the all but one principle. I just try to use the penalize them the worst to think thru the enforcement, and focus on the play situation. I'm not making up rules for enforcement, just trying to do some personal things to help me with the proper enforcement. Jim