Kick play

[insatty]

My schedule forces me to study NCAA rules more than NFHS, so I may be missing something because of the difference in PSK (compare NCAA 10-2-3-e to NFHS 2-16-2-h-5).

But the rules' clear language suggests that the flaw in Ppaltice's analysis is that K must accept the penalty to avoid R getting the ball at the first-touching spot. So when K accepts the penalty, R's right to take the ball at the first-touching spot is canceled:

"The right of R to take the ball at spot of first touching by K is canceled if . . . the penalty is accepted for any foul committed during the down." 6-2-5.

When the right to take the ball at the first-touching spot is canceled, K is the next to put the ball in play. Thus, no PSK enforcement.

There may exist an interpretation that mandates PSK in this instance, but I don't know of it.

[UpNorthRef]

R is not in possession at the end of the down if the penalty is accepted so it cannot be PSK. The foul for R holding would be enforced from the previous spot as a loose ball foul. If the penalty is declined by K it will be R's ball at the spot of first touching. This is an interesting twist to see if there is a conflict between PSK and first touching.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by insatty

My schedule forces me to study NCAA rules more than NFHS, so I may be missing something because of the difference in PSK (compare NCAA 10-2-3-e to NFHS 2-16-2-h-5).

But the rules' clear language suggests that the flaw in Ppaltice's analysis is that K must accept the penalty to avoid R getting the ball at the first-touching spot. So when K accepts the penalty, R's right to take the ball at the first-touching spot is canceled:

"The right of R to take the ball at spot of first touching by K is canceled if . . . the penalty is accepted for any foul committed during the down." 6-2-5.

When the right to take the ball at the first-touching spot is canceled, K is the next to put the ball in play. Thus, no PSK enforcement.

There may exist an interpretation that mandates PSK in this instance, but I don't know of it.

This is how I interpreted it

[ppaltice]

What is your ruling on this:

PLAY1: 4th and 8 from K's 30. R33 holds K12 beyond the NZ during the kick. K20 falls on the untouched kick at R15 yard line.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ppaltice

What is your ruling on this:

PLAY1: 4th and 8 from K's 30. R33 holds K12 beyond the NZ during the kick. K20 falls on the untouched kick at R15 yard line.

Garden variety PSK and first touching. Half the distance from R15, 1/10 for R at R7.5, snap.

Why is this play instructive? The complication of the OP comes from the turnover.

[ppaltice]

Because in the OP with a turnover, you also have first touching. Why is one case of first touching "garden variety" and another ignored?

[VALJ]

The play you post is the very definition of PSK - R's foul occurs after the snap, beyond the NZ, before the kick ends, and R will be the team to put the ball into play.

[UpNorthRef]

"Because in the OP with a turnover, you also have first touching. Why is one case of first touching "garden variety" and another ignored?"

Because the play is over when K secured possession of the kick in example 2. In the original play there was only first touching and the play continued.