Opinions on this........

[dumbref]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Back up whistle - Obvious, used to signal those behind you when you're about to back up.

Where do you carry your back up whistle?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by dumbref

Where do you carry your back up whistle?

Some things are better left unsaid.

[Brandon Kincer]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Some things are better left unsaid.

Oh God! lol

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Or, Long Island!

Years ago our Interpreter disallowed a field goal when a R player tipped the ball in an attempt to block it but the ball still went over the crossbar. The "brains" that run our Association decided the rule book should be available at each varsity game.

This argument always amuses me. I admit, I am one of the poor abused officials who is required to have a rulebook available to me. And, I must admit, I respectfully disagree with each and every one of you that opposes that idea.

We need look no further than this situation to show why having one available is a good idea. This situation is kind of wacky and the official blew it. If he had the book he could have taken a minute to check the rule. Instead, out of ego or stubborness this error stood. I don't get it.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by parepat

We need look no further than this situation to show why having one available is a good idea. This situation is kind of wacky and the official blew it. If he had the book he could have taken a minute to check the rule. Instead, out of ego or stubborness this error stood. I don't get it.

Accessing a rule book on the field during a game may be the single worst idea I can think of. That act will shatter any credibility you may have had, or the credibility of any official that may follow you with either of those teams.

You need to understand, and more importantly accept, that although we all pursue perfection we never attain it, and that's just part of the game.

[Reffing Rev.]

Years ago when i first started my first local had the practice that the U on each crew carried a rulebook on the field in case we HAD to consult it. In the 2 years I worked with those guys we never consulted a rule book on the field. We did use it at halftime, and since we were locked out of our locker room it was handy the U had one.

When i moved my new local pretty much had us specialized.
Everyone was responsible to read the whole book and work it independently, but each member of the crew had some specialized areas.
Everyone was to "memorize" rule 2!, then break it up as follows.
R - Penalty Enforcement & Passing
U - Blocking/Contact & Equipment
BJ - Kicking
HL - Formation & Movement
LJ - Force/Scoring
Then on the field when there was a question on Force we knew who to talk to.

After several more moves I take a book on the field with me every time, its just memorized. There is no substitute for study.

Pre-Season I read and re-read each book twice. (Rule Book, Case Book, Official's Manual) and then I get a picture-book (illustrated) every other year.
During season I read 1 book each week.
Out of season I read 1 book each month.

Study until the point you don't have to think to know the rules. ANd then study some more.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Accessing a rule book on the field during a game may be the single worst idea I can think of. That act will shatter any credibility you may have had, or the credibility of any official that may follow you with either of those teams.

You need to understand, and more importantly accept, that although we all pursue perfection we never attain it, and that's just part of the game.

AJMC, thank you for being so concerned about my needs.

Your self esteem must be very low if you think that by having available to you a resource which could correct errors would "shatter any credibility you may have had".

Just think how those NFL officials must feel with those pesky replay camera's destroying their delicate psychies.

Give me a break. In fourteen years I have had to go the book 2 or three times. And, if the result is that I fix a mistake that I made, I am more than willing to assume the risk to my self esteem.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

Years ago when i first started my first local had the practice that the U on each crew carried a rulebook on the field in case we HAD to consult it. In the 2 years I worked with those guys we never consulted a rule book on the field. We did use it at halftime, and since we were locked out of our locker room it was handy the U had one.

When i moved my new local pretty much had us specialized.
Everyone was responsible to read the whole book and work it independently, but each member of the crew had some specialized areas.
Everyone was to "memorize" rule 2!, then break it up as follows.
R - Penalty Enforcement & Passing
U - Blocking/Contact & Equipment
BJ - Kicking
HL - Formation & Movement
LJ - Force/Scoring
Then on the field when there was a question on Force we knew who to talk to.

After several more moves I take a book on the field with me every time, its just memorized. There is no substitute for study.

Pre-Season I read and re-read each book twice. (Rule Book, Case Book, Official's Manual) and then I get a picture-book (illustrated) every other year.
During season I read 1 book each week.
Out of season I read 1 book each month.

Study until the point you don't have to think to know the rules. ANd then study some more.

This is a good way to divide and conquer Rev. And, if everyone on your crew is as diligent as you suggest then you would never need to go to the book. WHat happens when you aren't sure?

I compare it to a condem in the wallet of the college student. Better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

Sorry Rev. probably not the best analogy.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by parepat

AJMC, thank you for being so concerned about my needs..

Self esteem is really not the issue, parepat, that's something we each have total, and unilateral, control over. Credibility is a different matter, although much has to do with our competency and how we project ourselves, there's a whole other side of it that is determined by our audience, who may at times be totally out of self control.

As always, things may well be different where you are, but where I am, and where I've been, pulling a rule book out for reference during a ball game ( which does not include the halftime break) would be an absolute kiss of death.

Perhaps that's why you don't hear a lot about surgeons pulling our instruction manuals in the operating room with the patient on the table.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Self esteem is really not the issue, parepat, that's something we each have total, and unilateral, control over. Credibility is a different matter, although much has to do with our competency and how we project ourselves, there's a whole other side of it that is determined by our audience, who may at times be totally out of self control.

As always, things may well be different where you are, but where I am, and where I've been, pulling a rule book out for reference during a ball game ( which does not include the halftime break) would be an absolute kiss of death.

Perhaps that's why you don't hear a lot about surgeons pulling our instruction manuals in the operating room with the patient on the table.

If you don't think physicians review reference material when in doubt, you are kidding yourself.

I am not willing to let a correctible error go for the sake of my credibility. The players and coaches deserve better.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by parepat

If you don't think physicians review reference material when in doubt, you are kidding yourself.

I am not willing to let a correctible error go for the sake of my credibility. The players and coaches deserve better.

I have no doubt competent physicians constantly review reference material, they just don't do it in the operating room while a patient is on the table.

I'm not suggesting, or inferring, that anyone should let a correctable error go for the sake of credibility, but I am stating that pulling out a rule book during a game, on the field (or sideline) is the wrong way to go about it.

[Reffing Rev.]

Originally Posted by parepat

If you don't think physicians review reference material when in doubt, you are kidding yourself.

I am not willing to let a correctible error go for the sake of my credibility. The players and coaches deserve better.

I fully expect that my physician uses regularly those books on his shelf, but I don't really want him referencing them while my spleen is sliced open. I might choose a new doctor, and if he suddenly forgets to stich up my spleen, I'll probably find a new doctor too.

So using your analogy...an official who demonstrates a lack of proficiency with the rule book is probably not going to get hired again, and for that matter an official who consults the reference manual on the field, looks like he doesn't know the rule book, and as we all know appearance is reality. So he's probably not getting hired again either.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

I fully expect that my physician uses regularly those books on his shelf, but I don't really want him referencing them while my spleen is sliced open. I might choose a new doctor, and if he suddenly forgets to stich up my spleen, I'll probably find a new doctor too.

Unless, of course, your spleen has a rare genetic anomoly only documented in one study. Now I ask you, as you lie there with the spleen exposed to the world. Would you want your doc to the go the book or "wing it".

So using your analogy...an official who demonstrates a lack of proficiency with the rule book is probably not going to get hired again, and for that matter an official who consults the reference manual on the field, looks like he doesn't know the rule book, and as we all know appearance is reality. So he's probably not getting hired again either.

You propose that rules proficiency and having the rule book available are mutually exclusive. They are not. However, I've never met an official who has never kicked a rule or its application. Faced with a situation where a mistake is made, I am comfortable using any allowable resource to fix my mistake despite the effect it may have on others' opinions of me.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by parepat

You propose that rules proficiency and having the rule book available are mutually exclusive. They are not. However, I've never met an official who has never kicked a rule or its application. Faced with a situation where a mistake is made, I am comfortable using any allowable resource to fix my mistake despite the effect it may have on others' opinions of me.

It's not that rules proficiency, and having a rules book are mutually exclisive, it's that they each apply to a certain, completely different, setting. Rule books are wondeful for an open book test, unfortunately working an actual game is the ultimate "closed book test" setting.

The "allowable resources" you have to work with during a contest, are limited to your preparation, your common sense and judgment and each of the other officials on your crew. When you step on the game field, the rule book is NOT part of your tool kit.

Whether you like it, or not, your credibility, as perceived by the coaches and players, is a vital part of your performance and probability of success. If their view, of your credibility is weakened, their confidence in you is weakened which starts a downward spiral, often impossible to reverse.

As close as I can come to guaranteeing anything, pulling out a rule book on the field during a game, is not going to build confidence or enhance your credibility or do you, your crew, or either team any good and it sets a horrible presedence that might take a much bigger bite out of your backside than any rule mistake you, and your crew, might ever make.

[mikesears]

If I were to hire an electrician, I hope he is capable of doing the job without the need to consult the electrical code. If I find him consulting the code frequently, my opinion of his knowledge is going to suffer. However, if he consults it for some obscure isolated thing which very few electricians encounter, I'd be more understanding.