Defered Option

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by Forksref

I hope you are not speaking as an official when you say you will suggest what they should do.

Actually, yes I am. I am going to suggest they receive the ball, usually by simply stating to the losing team "you want the ball, right?". If they try to go with kick I'll ask them if they really want to kick both halves. Amazingly, I've never had any coach ever question it from either side. You can go strictly by the book here and possibly buy yourself a shtstorm, or you can practice a little game management. Your choice.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Actually, yes I am. I am going to suggest they receive the ball, usually by simply stating to the losing team "you want the ball, right?". If they try to go with kick I'll ask them if they really want to kick both halves. Amazingly, I've never had any coach ever question it from either side. You can go strictly by the book here and possibly buy yourself a shtstorm, or you can practice a little game management. Your choice.

Interesting. Two seasons ago we had a visiting team win the toss and elect to kick. The WH essentially did what you say and talked them out of it. It cost us a possession. Why should one team lose a possession because the other coaching staff didn't do their job?

[daggo66]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Interesting. Two seasons ago we had a visiting team win the toss and elect to kick. The WH essentially did what you say and talked them out of it. It cost us a possession. Why should one team lose a possession because the other coaching staff didn't do their job?

We never "talk" them out of it. If they truly want to kick, we will allow it. What we do is make sure that they fully understand what their choice entails. When a captain says they want to kick, I will say, "you realize it is your choice this half. They will have the choice in the second half and could end up receiving both halves. Are you sure you don't want to defer instead?" If they still insist on kicking that is their right. It didn't really cost you a possession.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Interesting. Two seasons ago we had a visiting team win the toss and elect to kick. The WH essentially did what you say and talked them out of it. It cost us a possession. Why should one team lose a possession because the other coaching staff didn't do their job?

And I'm sure you don't mind when the officials try to keep your captains from making a poor penalty choice or even maybe come directly to you on a difficult one. It is amazing how ones perspective changes depending on just who is getting the help, huh?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Mike L

And I'm sure you don't mind when the officials try to keep your captains from making a poor penalty choice or even maybe come directly to you on a difficult one. It is amazing how ones perspective changes depending on just who is getting the help, huh?

My perspective doesn't change much on it at all...we teach our captains what to do and say. If they aren't sure, they are taught to turn to our sideline and yell at us - and we yell back what we want them to do. Again, if the other coaches don't do it this way, that's not our fault...if our captains make a poor choice, then we will deal with them at our next practice.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

My perspective doesn't change much on it at all...we teach our captains what to do and say. If they aren't sure, they are taught to turn to our sideline and yell at us - and we yell back what we want them to do. Again, if the other coaches don't do it this way, that's not our fault...if our captains make a poor choice, then we will deal with them at our next practice.

Sounds like another example of why, "One size NEVER fits all". Some coaches want to be involved in Captain's decisions, others want their Captains to learn to make decisions, and there are all sorts of increments inbetween.

The Referee's job is to explain options as clearly and completely as possible and deciding whether the explanation has satisfied those requirements is the responsibility of the Referee, alone. If a Captain makes a decision that causes the Referee to question whether his explanation was as clear as he intended, he can, and in fact should, choose to amplify that explanation to whatever depth he believes the situation calls for to satisfy the requirements of clear and complete.

If you want to get technical, the procedure outlined in NF: 10.1.1 doesn't mention coaches or officials being involved in the decision process. It instructs, clearly, that the captain(s) be notified and that, "The Captain's choice of options may not be revoked.".

It's the Referee's responsibility to insure that the Captain is given the necessary and correct information from which to make a decision, and the coach's responsibility to insure that the Captain is prepared to make the right decision.

NF: 2.32.5.c designates the "Captain" as the designated team representative during (c) Penalty decisions following a foul."

Sometimes a Referee's job requires multiple explanations before a Captain fully understans his options, or a coach may feel providing additional instructions, from the sideline is necessary, to assist the Captain's decision making.

The common objective should simply be that the Captain has all the information necessary to make his best choice. How that plays out may differ from game to game or even penalty to penalty.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

My perspective doesn't change much on it at all...we teach our captains what to do and say. If they aren't sure, they are taught to turn to our sideline and yell at us - and we yell back what we want them to do. Again, if the other coaches don't do it this way, that's not our fault...if our captains make a poor choice, then we will deal with them at our next practice.

It seems the coaches around here are happy to avoid the whole I explain it to their captain who barely remembers he's the captain, who hopefully can then repeat the explanation correctly, so that the coach can hear it and make a decision, to have said confused 18 year old figure it out again & repeat it to me.
We just go with cutting out the unnecessary middle man and getting the game moving along.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Mike L

It seems the coaches around here are happy to avoid the whole I explain it to their captain who barely remembers he's the captain, who hopefully can then repeat the explanation correctly, so that the coach can hear it and make a decision, to have said confused 18 year old figure it out again & repeat it to me.
We just go with cutting out the unnecessary middle man and getting the game moving along.

Ha!

Good explanation...and I get it. I'm really not trying to argue the point or anything...I like this explanation and ajmc's. It's an attempt to stop a stupid mistake - I get that. Thanks for explaining it.