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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 19, 2009, 01:47pm
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You all are right of course - holding is 10 yards which moves R back to his 25. The dead ball is 1/2 the distance which goes to the 12 1/2.
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Old Thu Mar 19, 2009, 02:26pm
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Huh...so in nobody's code is there the choice of an awarded fair catch + 15 yds. from the spot of the KCI? That'd seem to be an advantageous choice for R, which following the dead ball PF would leave them at their own 30 yard line -- if that is indeed an allowed choice.
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Old Thu Mar 19, 2009, 02:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
Huh...so in nobody's code is there the choice of an awarded fair catch + 15 yds. from the spot of the KCI? That'd seem to be an advantageous choice for R, which following the dead ball PF would leave them at their own 30 yard line -- if that is indeed an allowed choice.
If R accepts a penalty against K, K could then accept the holding penalty against R making it a double foul and replay the down. Then as Jim D. stated the dead ball foul against R would give K a first down. In order for R to keep the ball, they have to decline K's fouls.
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Old Fri Mar 20, 2009, 02:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
Huh...so in nobody's code is there the choice of an awarded fair catch + 15 yds. from the spot of the KCI? That'd seem to be an advantageous choice for R, which following the dead ball PF would leave them at their own 30 yard line -- if that is indeed an allowed choice.
Check out 10-2-2b, R must decline K's fouls to keep the ball.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 07:09pm
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NCAA: same as what Ed said -- R must decline K's fouls. Holding enforced from the 35 to the 25, then half the distance for the dead ball foul. No reason to give choices, just explain the result. First and 10 from R's 12.5.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 22, 2009, 07:46pm
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This brings up one of my pet peeves. When I first started as an R I used to say "if you decline this penalty, or, if you accept this penalty" and it felt really stupid after a while as most penalties declination is a bad choice. Now that does mean I must determine if there is a reason to decline. Then I read Jerry Markbreit who said don't let them make a bad choice.
Now when I'm working a sub-varsity game and another official is the R it really bothers me to hear them give that stupid, "if you decline" option. Say it's a pass interference, "Captain if you decline, you have not be able to replay the down and it will be 3rd and 37 or accept the penalty and its 1st and 10." C'mon, why even mention what happens if you decline, in fact, just tell him, "Captain, first and ten," and move on.
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Old Mon Mar 23, 2009, 09:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Hickland View Post
when I'm working a sub-varsity game
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Hickland View Post
I read Jerry Markbreit who said don't let them make a bad choice.
I agree.

It make no sense to "consult" with the captins if a choice is clear. I would just tell them they want the foul and move on.
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Old Mon Mar 23, 2009, 12:29pm
Ref Ump Welsch
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I worked with a white hat a few times in subvarsity ball who would inform the captains in the pregame, that when it came to penalties, he would give them their "best" option first. I wish I had a play like the OP so I could see what his "best" option would have been, LOL.

Speaking of bizarre, I had a play (3-man crew) where I flagged B1 for defensive holding just a couple yards off the line, and then stayed with B1 and A1 as they headed downfield where A1 committed intentional pass interference, dropping my 2nd flag. After the catch, B1 grabs A1 and runs him OOB and body slams A1, so I threw a bean bag at the OOB spot. A1 jumped up, threw the ball at him, calling him several expletives, at which time I dropped my hat. By time, white hat could get there, B's coach was running out of the box screaming "toss his f**king a** out of game!" So dropped my other bean bag at the spot. After restoring order, white hat's first comment: "dude, I thought you were putting on a strip show!" LOL
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