NFL Touchback on Punts

[HLin NC]

in HS it would be a touchback- its where the ball is, not the player.

[BigTex]

Is the pylon part of the ground? Can't you be above the endzone and bat the ball back into the field of play? If a player is trying to bat the ball back and kicks the pylon on his way up, is he considered to have touched the ground in the endzone?

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by BigTex

Is the pylon part of the ground? Can't you be above the endzone and bat the ball back into the field of play? If a player is trying to bat the ball back and kicks the pylon on his way up, is he considered to have touched the ground in the endzone?

I've never heard the pylon as technically part of the ground, but it is considered out of bounds. Under Fed, during a kick the ball is dead as soon as it crosses the plane of the goal line so assuming the ball is in the end zone, you can't bat it back even if you never touched the end zone.

If the K player touches the pylon on the way up, he is technically out of bounds. If he then participates in the play, he is guilty of illegal participation which is a 15-yard penalty. Your example brings up an interesting thought though. He technically never returned to the field since I assume he continued his momentum out of bounds so I don't know that you can penalize him for illegal participation. I guess you could still consider him out of bounds and thus the ball is dead because it touched something out of bounds. The in-bounds spot would be the foremost point of the ball when it crossed the sideline. If that was beyond the plane of the goal line, it would be a touchback. Otherwise it would a very long field for R. I'd be curious to hear the thoughts of those smarter than me.

[Bullycon]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

in HS it would be a touchback- its where the ball is, not the player.

In the original post, I said the ball never breaks the plane.

The airborne K player recovers the ball, and while still airborne, his foot strikes the pylon. He then carries the ball out of bounds at the 1. The ball never breaks the plane of the goal line. In NFHS, this is R ball at the 1, because the position of the player doesn't matter.

In NFL, I'm wondering if striking the pylon technically puts the runner in the endzone, and therefore a touchback. Looks like most people think the answer is yes.

Thanks for the responses, everyone.

[HLin NC]

I think that is what I said conceerning the NFL. I referenced the Fed situation to answer your last question in the post.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Bullycon

In the original post, I said the ball never breaks the plane.

The airborne K player recovers the ball, and while still airborne, his foot strikes the pylon. He then carries the ball out of bounds at the 1. The ball never breaks the plane of the goal line. In NFHS, this is R ball at the 1, because the position of the player doesn't matter.

In NFL, I'm wondering if striking the pylon technically puts the runner in the endzone, and therefore a touchback. Looks like most people think the answer is yes.

Thanks for the responses, everyone.

The position of the player does not matter in relation to the end zone. But it does matter that this player is out of bounds when he contacts the ball. The ball is out of bounds when it contacts that player and the ball will be placed at the inbounds spot. I assume that is somewhere between the goal line and the 1 since you said the ball never reached the goal line. It's irrelevant where he lands because the ball is dead as soon as he touches it.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

The position of the player does not matter in relation to the end zone. But it does matter that this player is out of bounds when he contacts the ball. The ball is out of bounds when it contacts that player and the ball will be placed at the inbounds spot. I assume that is somewhere between the goal line and the 1 since you said the ball never reached the goal line. It's irrelevant where he lands because the ball is dead as soon as he touches it.

Agreed. (I agree with the entire post, but the red part is the crux.)