Wiffed Free Kick

[Ed Hickland]

This would be a case of the wierd but what is the rule?

NFHS Rules. K7 is the kicker for a kickoff. K7 wiffs the kick missing the ball completely. What rule applies?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

K7 is the kicker for a kickoff. K7 wiffs the kick missing the ball completely. What rule applies?

CANADIAN RULING:

No call to make. K players can reset.

K must still kick the ball before the play clock expires, but there is no foul for offside unless K is past the KL when the ball is kicked.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

This would be a case of the wierd but what is the rule?

NFHS Rules. K7 is the kicker for a kickoff. K7 wiffs the kick missing the ball completely. What rule applies?

It's nothing as long as none of the other 10 enter the NZ. But that's not likely to happen.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

It's nothing as long as none of the other 10 enter the NZ. But that's not likely to happen.

If K7 is kicking at the ball but misses it, then why is it okay for him to enter the NZ. Is he still a kicker if he misses it?

(Especially if he is the ONLY one to enter, then wouldn't it be a reasonable assumption that this was an intentional act?)

[waltjp]

If the kicker earnestly tried to kick the ball and missed due to slipping or wind or something I'd just blow it dead, provided he didn't contact the ball, and reset everything. If I thought the kicking team was somehow trying to gain an advantage by a 'fake kick' then I'd flag it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

If K7 is kicking at the ball but misses it, then why is it okay for him to enter the NZ. Is he still a kicker if he misses it?

(Especially if he is the ONLY one to enter, then wouldn't it be a reasonable assumption that this was an intentional act?)

Where did I say that it's okay for him to enter the NZ?

And no, I don't have any reason to think it's an intentional act. What advantage is gained by having him run up and miss the ball?

I've had this happen a couple of times before. And both times, one or more of the other 10 players entered the NZ. Flag.

walt, there was no time to kill the play in either situation before K players enter the NZ.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Where did I say that it's okay for him to enter the NZ?

And no, I don't have any reason to think it's an intentional act. What advantage is gained by having him run up and miss the ball?

I've had this happen a couple of times before. And both times, one or more of the other 10 players entered the NZ. Flag.

walt, there was no time to kill the play in either situation before K players enter the NZ.

Makes sense. Can't imagine why someone would intentionally have the kicker wiff the ball. Oh! I forgot about youth football coaches.

So my original post was somewhat incorrect in that a kicker is not a kicker until he kicks the ball legally.

If the potential kicker wiffs the ball more than likely he or a teammate would commit a neutral zone infraction -- dead ball foul.

If the wiff is judged to be intentional for some strange reason you could penalize the kicking team with attempting to deceive. Why you would ever believe someone would do this intentionally?

[umpirebob71]

"Why would you ever believe someone would do this intentionally?"

Ed, Again you forget youth football coaches.

[Robert Goodman]

Doing the entire act intentionally I couldn't see, but doing part of it intentionally, setting oneself up to goof, I could see. K1 is supposed to approach the ball and pretend to kick while K2 slightly after him kicks the ball in a different direction. If K1 goes too far selling the fake, he could wind up in the neutral zone before K2 makes contact with the ball. Then you'd want to whistle it dead in Fed or flag it as offside in other codes.

Ever have simultaneous encroachment by both teams in Fed when an onside kick is expected? Not that it would be really simultaneous, but that nobody would be positioned to tell which came first?

Robert

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by waltjp

If the kicker earnestly tried to kick the ball and missed due to slipping or wind or something I'd just blow it dead, provided he didn't contact the ball, and reset everything. If I thought the kicking team was somehow trying to gain an advantage by a 'fake kick' then I'd flag it.

Unless the ball was blown off the tee, why would you blow this dead. They have 25 seconds to kick it and they just wasted part of that.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

It's nothing as long as none of the other 10 enter the NZ. But that's not likely to happen.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Where did I say that it's okay for him to enter the NZ?

Right there. You said it is nothing unless one of the other 10 players enters the neutral zone, therefore it is ok if the potential kicker enters the neutral zone.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

It's nothing as long as none of the other 10 enter the NZ. But that's not likely to happen.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I've had this happen a couple of times before. And both times, one or more of the other 10 players entered the NZ. Flag.

Why are you bringing up the other 10 players once again? If the kicker misses the ball then at least his foot will be in the neutral zone and it will be a foul.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Right there. You said it is nothing unless one of the other 10 players enters the neutral zone, therefore it is ok if the potential kicker enters the neutral zone.

Incorrect. I never addressed the kicker at all. I stated that at least one of the other 10 would enter the NZ.

Why are you bringing up the other 10 players once again? If the kicker misses the ball then at least his foot will be in the neutral zone and it will be a foul. 10 would enter the NZ.

Negative. In both the situations I had, the "kicker" did not enter the NZ but several of the other 10 did almost immediately.

Not all kickers enter the NZ prior to contacting the ball.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Incorrect. I never addressed the kicker at all. I stated that at least one of the other 10 would enter the NZ.



Negative. In both the situations I had, the "kicker" did not enter the NZ but several of the other 10 did almost immediately.

Not all kickers enter the NZ prior to contacting the ball.

Yes, you did talk about the kicker.

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

NFHS Rules. K7 is the kicker for a kickoff. K7 wiffs the kick missing the ball completely. What rule applies?

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

It's nothing as long as none of the other 10 enter the NZ.

By saying it is nothing if none of the other 10 players do it you are saying it is legal if the other player does it. You specifically said that it is nothing as long as none of the other 10 players goes into the neutral zone. If it was illgeal for the potential kicker to enter the neutral zone why did you just not say "It's nothing as long as no one enters the NZ"?

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Negative. In both the situations I had, the "kicker" did not enter the NZ but several of the other 10 did almost immediately.

Not all kickers enter the NZ prior to contacting the ball.

If someone runs towards a ball, tries to kick it, and misses it is almost impossible that some part of his kicking foot would not enter the neutral zone. I find it very hard to believe that you have had a person wiff at the ball and not have his foot enter the neutral zone.

[Forksref]

I don't think it's possible for a kicker to miss and not enter the NZ. Encroachment, BJ blows it dead immediately.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Forksref

I don't think it's possible for a kicker to miss and not enter the NZ. Encroachment, BJ blows it dead immediately.

Sorry you don't believe me but I have no reason to lie. In both cases, it was an onside kick and other K players entered the NZ before the kicker. Not sure why that's difficult to believe.