ESPN Magazine A-11 Article

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My only suggestion is that even if you like other leagues that does not mean others like those games too.

Well, apparently I'm not the only one. Others do like those games. Not in anything approaching the numbers of the NFL, but is that the standard? Anything less than that and you're not registering? My only point was that I'm not a snob about it. Others might be. That's cool. Whatever. There's room enough for everybody's tastes.

And the fact that those leagues fell off, to me is a suggestion that everyone is not totally hip with the rules or style of play of all those games.

They're not nearly as popular, no question. But the AFL found a niche and exploited it for more than 20 years. In a better economy? Maybe it would be doing it this winter, maybe not.

But just because most people prefer Coke or Pepsi doesn't mean I don't still see RC Cola around.

One of the reasons I feel the NFL is loved, is because it has some tie to the past. If you totally change the game, you might totally change who watches it. And I do not see the NFL or any other level totally allowing such rules to come into their game because the game would look nothing like it did even 100 years ago. Rules changes are usually in place to make slight changes in the game, not completely destroy its foundation.

You're right. It's a multitude of little tweaks over the years, gradually, not a quantum leap. And, like I said above, the game is largely the same as it was 50 years ago.

But if you looked back to 1920, a fan of that time would have his head on a swivel in 2008 and would think all the throwing completely destroyed the foundation of the game. It's all about your point of reference, I guess. Most of us grew up in the era where the football was in the air a lot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Well, apparently I'm not the only one. Others do like those games. Not in anything approaching the numbers of the NFL, but is that the standard? Anything less than that and you're not registering? My only point was that I'm not a snob about it. Others might be. That's cool. Whatever. There's room enough for everybody's tastes.

They're not nearly as popular, no question. But the AFL found a niche and exploited it for more than 20 years. In a better economy? Maybe it would be doing it this winter, maybe not.

But just because most people prefer Coke or Pepsi doesn't mean I don't still see RC Cola around.

You're right. It's a multitude of little tweaks over the years, gradually, not a quantum leap. And, like I said above, the game is largely the same as it was 50 years ago.

But if you looked back to 1920, a fan of that time would have his head on a swivel in 2008 and would think all the throwing completely destroyed the foundation of the game. It's all about your point of reference, I guess. Most of us grew up in the era where the football was in the air a lot.

I did not in anyway try to suggest you were the only one. Either way it goes, those businesses did not survive. And part of the reason was there was not a market for them. You may love the AFL, but many more people apparently did not share your love with that style of football. You do not shut down your league for a year if you are doing well. The NFL is not only the most popular football league, but the most popular league in this country. I think that did not happen by accident.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You may love the AFL, but many more people apparently did not share your love with that style of football.

The trouble with Arena football is that it left its rules too close to those of outdoor football (and the IFL, lacking the patented rebounding screens, even more so) so that it suffers by comparison. They even adopted rules to make it artificially look more like the outdoor game than it should -- restrictions on defenses to allow 8 a side in space that really should accommodate fewer -- while still allowing new series for advancing just 10 yards in 4 downs, making defensive stops rare, resembling service breaks in high level men's tennis. They wanted players to go both ways, but then put in exceptions for where it really counts -- quarterbacks and kickers. They were afraid to extend the screens to the floor, where some player might get his hand caught in the links, or to make the side walls part of regular play, let alone extending the cage enclosure around the whole playing area.

Robert

[OverAndBack]

Just for the record, I don't love Arena football. Is there a reason I can't express an appreciation of something without being told that I am in the tiny minority that loves (your words, not mine) it?

I appreciate it for what it is. Like I said, I don't believe there's only one league, one way to play, one anything. There's a top dog, no question, and, no, the NFL didn't get to its market position by accident. Again, I never said that, so there was no need to make that point to me. Then again, you've never been one to admit you weren't 100% right, so there we are.

I like cheese.

There.

Can we have a debate about that?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Just for the record, I don't love Arena football. Is there a reason I can't express an appreciation of something without being told that I am in the tiny minority that loves (your words, not mine) it?

I appreciate it for what it is. Like I said, I don't believe there's only one league, one way to play, one anything. There's a top dog, no question, and, no, the NFL didn't get to its market position by accident. Again, I never said that, so there was no need to make that point to me. Then again, you've never been one to admit you weren't 100% right, so there we are.

I like cheese.

There.

Can we have a debate about that?

I did not realize we were debating anything (seriously). I thought we were having a conversation about football. I was just saying that people do not seem to like these leagues or wide open game that does not give the defense a fighting chance. Really, that was all I was saying.

Peace