ESPN Magazine A-11 Article

[bossman72]

So the NFL want's more offense?

Wait a sec, there was a league that had a ton of scoring and different rule changes geared towards offensive scoring... Oh yeah! the Arena Football league. Let's watch some of their games... oh wait...

See, I guess people want to watch real football (NFL) instead of basketball with an oddly shaped ball (AFL / A-11FL)

"But bossman, my offense would give the Lions a FIGHTING CHANCE against these other teams!"

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by bossman72

So the NFL want's more offense?

Wait a sec, there was a league that had a ton of scoring and different rule changes geared towards offensive scoring... Oh yeah! the Arena Football league. Let's watch some of their games... oh wait...

See, I guess people want to watch real football (NFL) instead of basketball with an oddly shaped ball (AFL / A-11FL)

"But bossman, my offense would give the Lions a FIGHTING CHANCE against these other teams!"

You gotta admit...Arenaball was a lot of fun. I'm not a snob, myself, so it doesn't have to be [pretentious quote]"Real"[/pretentious quote] for me to enjoy it for what it is. Or was. It did last 22 years and did get a lot of people to watch. Not nearly as much as the NFL, but then, it's not an either/or situation, is it?

Sure, the NFL is the most popular football league, but it's not the only one. And I don't think the AFL had an oddly-shaped ball, did it? It looked different, but I'm not sure it was oddly-shaped. May have been a tiny bit thinner for passing, don't know for sure.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

You gotta admit...Arenaball was a lot of fun. I'm not a snob, myself, so it doesn't have to be [pretentious quote]"Real"[/pretentious quote] for me to enjoy it for what it is. Or was. It did last 22 years and did get a lot of people to watch. Not nearly as much as the NFL, but then, it's not an either/or situation, is it?

Sure, the NFL is the most popular football league, but it's not the only one. And I don't think the AFL had an oddly-shaped ball, did it? It looked different, but I'm not sure it was oddly-shaped. May have been a tiny bit thinner for passing, don't know for sure.

You might be right, but the AFL is taking a year off. The XFL could not last more than 1 year. The Euro League is not defunct. And the USFL could not last and tried to sue the NFL to maintain. The NFL must be doing something right. People might complain that there is not enough scoring, but all those leagues had gimmicks associated with their games to them a no one seems to be watching. Even the CFL tried to work in this county and they only lasted a year or two. I do not think people are looking for a video game football style league. That might be changing, but nothing else seems to work.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You might be right, but the AFL is taking a year off. The XFL could not last more than 1 year. The Euro League is not defunct. And the USFL could not last and tried to sue the NFL to maintain. The NFL must be doing something right. People might complain that there is not enough scoring, but all those leagues had gimmicks associated with their games to them a no one seems to be watching. Even the CFL tried to work in this county and they only lasted a year or two. I do not think people are looking for a video game football style league. That might be changing, but nothing else seems to work.

OTOH, the year the WFL started playing, the NFL adopted most of their rules either directly or in spirit, so it appears the NFL was scared.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You might be right, but the AFL is taking a year off. The XFL could not last more than 1 year. The Euro League is not defunct. And the USFL could not last and tried to sue the NFL to maintain. The NFL must be doing something right. People might complain that there is not enough scoring, but all those leagues had gimmicks associated with their games to them a no one seems to be watching. Even the CFL tried to work in this county and they only lasted a year or two. I do not think people are looking for a video game football style league. That might be changing, but nothing else seems to work.

Peace

Three, not 'a year or two'. And helped produce quality officials such as Bill Vinovich, #52. And was attractive to Modell because of the exposition due to the CFL team. Modell had a large debt and a new team was the way to get rid of that debt.

[OverAndBack]

I didn't say the NFL wasn't doing something right. There's no question, it's the absolute highest level of football, the best football and probably the best and most popular sports league in human history. I love it.

But I have room in my pallette of things I like for things that aren't the NFL. That's just me. If it's not you, that's cool, too. I dug the USFL, warts and all (the new one ain't gonna play a game, and neither is the UFL). I liked watching Arenaball for a bit.

The NFL has constantly tweaked its game over the years to make it as appealing as possible. The rules changes in 1974 (coincident with the WFL, they may or may not have been in response to it) and 1978 and the tweaks over the years have been made with the idea of keeping offense and scoring and excitment up when defense has seemingly gained an advantage. Fans like the ball in the air. Yet, the game we watch today is still very similar to what they watched in 1958. Bigger players? Yep. Faster? You bet. More window dressing? Yeah. But still basically the same game. A great game. But not the only game, IMHO, worth giving some attention to.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

A great game. But not the only game, IMHO, worth giving some attention to.

My only suggestion is that even if you like other leagues that does not mean others like those games too. And the fact that those leagues fell off, to me is a suggestion that everyone is not totally hip with the rules or style of play of all those games. One of the reasons I feel the NFL is loved, is because it has some tie to the past. If you totally change the game, you might totally change who watches it. And I do not see the NFL or any other level totally allowing such rules to come into their game because the game would look nothing like it did even 100 years ago. Rules changes are usually in place to make slight changes in the game, not completely destroy its foundation.

Peace

[daggo66]

I dislike Arena football for the same reason I grew to dislike the NBA. You can definitely have too much offense. An exiciting game to watch is one that is balanced with offense and defense. A football game with a score of 65 to 56 is not exciting to me in the least.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My only suggestion is that even if you like other leagues that does not mean others like those games too.

Well, apparently I'm not the only one. Others do like those games. Not in anything approaching the numbers of the NFL, but is that the standard? Anything less than that and you're not registering? My only point was that I'm not a snob about it. Others might be. That's cool. Whatever. There's room enough for everybody's tastes.

And the fact that those leagues fell off, to me is a suggestion that everyone is not totally hip with the rules or style of play of all those games.

They're not nearly as popular, no question. But the AFL found a niche and exploited it for more than 20 years. In a better economy? Maybe it would be doing it this winter, maybe not.

But just because most people prefer Coke or Pepsi doesn't mean I don't still see RC Cola around.

One of the reasons I feel the NFL is loved, is because it has some tie to the past. If you totally change the game, you might totally change who watches it. And I do not see the NFL or any other level totally allowing such rules to come into their game because the game would look nothing like it did even 100 years ago. Rules changes are usually in place to make slight changes in the game, not completely destroy its foundation.

You're right. It's a multitude of little tweaks over the years, gradually, not a quantum leap. And, like I said above, the game is largely the same as it was 50 years ago.

But if you looked back to 1920, a fan of that time would have his head on a swivel in 2008 and would think all the throwing completely destroyed the foundation of the game. It's all about your point of reference, I guess. Most of us grew up in the era where the football was in the air a lot.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not see the NFL or any other level totally allowing such rules to come into their game because the game would look nothing like it did even 100 years ago.

Am I parsing that correctly? If so, has it occurred to you that the changes dicussed are still minor compared to the changes to the game since 1908? At least one the discussed changes would even take the rules back to more like they were in 1908.

Robert