ESPN Magazine A-11 Article

[daggo66]

I dislike Arena football for the same reason I grew to dislike the NBA. You can definitely have too much offense. An exiciting game to watch is one that is balanced with offense and defense. A football game with a score of 65 to 56 is not exciting to me in the least.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My only suggestion is that even if you like other leagues that does not mean others like those games too.

Well, apparently I'm not the only one. Others do like those games. Not in anything approaching the numbers of the NFL, but is that the standard? Anything less than that and you're not registering? My only point was that I'm not a snob about it. Others might be. That's cool. Whatever. There's room enough for everybody's tastes.

And the fact that those leagues fell off, to me is a suggestion that everyone is not totally hip with the rules or style of play of all those games.

They're not nearly as popular, no question. But the AFL found a niche and exploited it for more than 20 years. In a better economy? Maybe it would be doing it this winter, maybe not.

But just because most people prefer Coke or Pepsi doesn't mean I don't still see RC Cola around.

One of the reasons I feel the NFL is loved, is because it has some tie to the past. If you totally change the game, you might totally change who watches it. And I do not see the NFL or any other level totally allowing such rules to come into their game because the game would look nothing like it did even 100 years ago. Rules changes are usually in place to make slight changes in the game, not completely destroy its foundation.

You're right. It's a multitude of little tweaks over the years, gradually, not a quantum leap. And, like I said above, the game is largely the same as it was 50 years ago.

But if you looked back to 1920, a fan of that time would have his head on a swivel in 2008 and would think all the throwing completely destroyed the foundation of the game. It's all about your point of reference, I guess. Most of us grew up in the era where the football was in the air a lot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Well, apparently I'm not the only one. Others do like those games. Not in anything approaching the numbers of the NFL, but is that the standard? Anything less than that and you're not registering? My only point was that I'm not a snob about it. Others might be. That's cool. Whatever. There's room enough for everybody's tastes.

They're not nearly as popular, no question. But the AFL found a niche and exploited it for more than 20 years. In a better economy? Maybe it would be doing it this winter, maybe not.

But just because most people prefer Coke or Pepsi doesn't mean I don't still see RC Cola around.

You're right. It's a multitude of little tweaks over the years, gradually, not a quantum leap. And, like I said above, the game is largely the same as it was 50 years ago.

But if you looked back to 1920, a fan of that time would have his head on a swivel in 2008 and would think all the throwing completely destroyed the foundation of the game. It's all about your point of reference, I guess. Most of us grew up in the era where the football was in the air a lot.

I did not in anyway try to suggest you were the only one. Either way it goes, those businesses did not survive. And part of the reason was there was not a market for them. You may love the AFL, but many more people apparently did not share your love with that style of football. You do not shut down your league for a year if you are doing well. The NFL is not only the most popular football league, but the most popular league in this country. I think that did not happen by accident.

Peace

Originally Posted by daggo66

I dislike Arena football for the same reason I grew to dislike the NBA. You can definitely have too much offense. An exiciting game to watch is one that is balanced with offense and defense. A football game with a score of 65 to 56 is not exciting to me in the least.

Then you wouldn't enjoy 6-man football at the high school level. Of course, then, some 8-man games would offend you perhaps?

[TXMike]

Not surprising that a discussion about the A-11 devolves into a discussion over the merits of "different" kinds of football. And that is exactly what the proponents of the A-11 should do if they believe in it so strongly, create an A-11 League, cause it does not belong in normal football.

[daggo66]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Then you wouldn't enjoy 6-man football at the high school level. Of course, then, some 8-man games would offend you perhaps?

I am not familiar with either 6 or 8 man football at the high school level. I would have to see it to decide whether or not I enjoy it. Regardless of what I may or may not enjoy, I never said that it "offends" me. I have nothing against Arena football, except that I don't enjoy watching it, therefore I don't. If someone else loves it or enjoys watching it, that's fine, I don't care.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not see the NFL or any other level totally allowing such rules to come into their game because the game would look nothing like it did even 100 years ago.

Am I parsing that correctly? If so, has it occurred to you that the changes dicussed are still minor compared to the changes to the game since 1908? At least one the discussed changes would even take the rules back to more like they were in 1908.

Robert

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You may love the AFL, but many more people apparently did not share your love with that style of football.

The trouble with Arena football is that it left its rules too close to those of outdoor football (and the IFL, lacking the patented rebounding screens, even more so) so that it suffers by comparison. They even adopted rules to make it artificially look more like the outdoor game than it should -- restrictions on defenses to allow 8 a side in space that really should accommodate fewer -- while still allowing new series for advancing just 10 yards in 4 downs, making defensive stops rare, resembling service breaks in high level men's tennis. They wanted players to go both ways, but then put in exceptions for where it really counts -- quarterbacks and kickers. They were afraid to extend the screens to the floor, where some player might get his hand caught in the links, or to make the side walls part of regular play, let alone extending the cage enclosure around the whole playing area.

Robert

[OverAndBack]

Just for the record, I don't love Arena football. Is there a reason I can't express an appreciation of something without being told that I am in the tiny minority that loves (your words, not mine) it?

I appreciate it for what it is. Like I said, I don't believe there's only one league, one way to play, one anything. There's a top dog, no question, and, no, the NFL didn't get to its market position by accident. Again, I never said that, so there was no need to make that point to me. Then again, you've never been one to admit you weren't 100% right, so there we are.

I like cheese.

There.

Can we have a debate about that?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Just for the record, I don't love Arena football. Is there a reason I can't express an appreciation of something without being told that I am in the tiny minority that loves (your words, not mine) it?

I appreciate it for what it is. Like I said, I don't believe there's only one league, one way to play, one anything. There's a top dog, no question, and, no, the NFL didn't get to its market position by accident. Again, I never said that, so there was no need to make that point to me. Then again, you've never been one to admit you weren't 100% right, so there we are.

I like cheese.

There.

Can we have a debate about that?

I did not realize we were debating anything (seriously). I thought we were having a conversation about football. I was just saying that people do not seem to like these leagues or wide open game that does not give the defense a fighting chance. Really, that was all I was saying.

Peace

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Then you wouldn't enjoy 6-man football at the high school level. Of course, then, some 8-man games would offend you perhaps?

Try 9-man where last year I worked two dome-games in one day and there were over 200 pts. scored in those 2 games. It's not that much fun when you are a wing.

I prefer to watch a low-scoring game where one play can make the difference. However, I find that arena ball is entertaining, just not the optimum format for me. For arena ball, I just have to accept that it is not real football.

Originally Posted by Forksref

Try 9-man where last year I worked two dome-games in one day and there were over 200 pts. scored in those 2 games. It's not that much fun when you are a wing.

I prefer to watch a low-scoring game where one play can make the difference. However, I find that arena ball is entertaining, just not the optimum format for me. For arena ball, I just have to accept that it is not real football.

I can relate, being a wing in 8-man ball sucks big time some of the time. It all depends on what kind of teams you have out there. If you have two explosive offenses, then it's a long day. If you have two really sucky defenses, can be a long day. If you have two solid offenses and two solid defenses, then it's a good day.

We had one weekend last year (Friday night and Saturday afternoon) where the two 8-man games we had combined for over 250 points, maybe almost 275. Yes, you read that right. Final score Friday night was like 60something-50something, while Saturday afternoon's final was 80something-70something.

A buddy of mine coached 6-man ball one year, and he had a great offense, fair defense. His team almost broke the state scoring record on offense, and almost gave up the most points ever on defense and yet came in 2nd in the state.