Slapping the Snap

[bigjohn]

Those things can all cause B to encroach so they are false starts as well as snap infractions. Same thing. Same penalty same signal!

Point is if B hinders the snap or causes a false start it is USC.
Using 9-5-1d as rule.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Those things can all cause B to encroach so they are false starts as well as snap infractions. Same thing. Same penalty same signal!

Man, I quoted you what is a false start and what is a snap infraction. What is so difficult about this. 2 fouls having the same penalty or the same signal do not mean they are the same foul.

Here is a list of fouls which use signal #19.

5. Free-kick infraction........................................ .................................................. .......................6-1-2 7-19
7. Free kick out of bounds............................................ .................................................. ............6-1-8 19
9. Snap infraction .................................................. .................................................. ...............7-1-2, 3 7-19
10. False Start .................................................. .................................................. ..........................7-1-7 7-19
11. Illegal formation .................................................. .................................................. .........7-2-1, 2, 3 19
12. Less than seven players on A’s line or numbering violation......................................... ..........7-2-5 19
14. Planned loose-ball infraction........................................ .................................................. ........7-2-8 19
25. Attendant illegally on field .................................................. .................................................. ..9-8-2 19

[bigjohn]

OK.

7-1 all deal with before the snap and use signal 19. My point is they are all things the can be affected by 9-5-1d. Hindered action at the snap. If you want me to say that a snap infraction is not a false start, I can, but we all know that there is virtually no difference. Both are dead ball fouls that can be caused by B if they use disconcerting acts or words!
if the snapper flinches that is a snap infraction but also a false start. If someone is swiping at the ball in an attempt to slap it out of the center's hand, THAT is a disconcerting act!


d. Using disconcerting acts or words prior to the snap in an attempt to
interfere with A’s signals or movements.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

If you want me to say that a snap infraction is not a false start, I can, but we all know that there is virtually no difference. Both are dead ball fouls that can be caused by B if they use disconcerting acts or words!

So the snapper walking up to the ball and spinning it end to end or moving it forward can be caused by what B says? I don't think so.

A snap infraction is a snap infraction, not a false start. I quoted the rule book earlier and explained what each one was. Yes, there can be a situation where the snapper makes a movement which could be considered a snap infraction or false start, but that does not mean that snap infraction is the same as a false start.

[bigjohn]

But the question still remains, can B cause a snap infraction?

B can cause a false start, that is in a case play and the same case play say any act that hinders movement at the snap is USC. So if I concede on your point why can't you concede mine?

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

But the question still remains, can B cause a snap infraction?

B can cause a false start, that is in a case play and the same case play say any act that hinders movement at the snap is USC. So if I concede on your point why can't you concede mine?

You don't even remember what your original point was. You said "slapping the snap causes a snap infraction, no? That is false start." That is completly false. A false start and snap infraction is not the same thing.

I believe that no one has argued that B could cause a snap infraction; I don't know what you are talking about.

[bigjohn]

So you agree that 9-5-1d makes slapping at the snap a USC?


I agree with you!
Let me restate that a snap infraction is like a false start. It is prior to the snap and causes the ball to remain dead.

All plays must begin with a legal snap and for B to hinder that by ACTS or words is USC!