Slapping the Snap

[With_Two_Flakes]

We play NCAA Rules over here in the UK and have no problems since NCAA Rules and AR's are quite specific on this point. Firstly NCAA Rules have a Section about Defensive Team Requirements (7-1-5) and a specific AR 7-1-5-II that addresses this exact issue.

Snapper A1 legally begins the snap, but B2 bats the ball before A1 completes the snap, and B3 recovers the ball.
RULING: Team B foul and the ball is dead.
Penalty -- Five yards from the succeeding spot. Team B may not touch the ball until it has been snapped. Team A retains possession.

I'm not quite so familiar with Fed rules as I only get to work them a couple of times every 3 or 4 years when I travel to the US. Fed rules lack a specific section for defensive requirements, but perhaps this is because the Fed Rules Ctte. feel there is adequate existing coverage in 7-1-5 already.

However, Rule 7 Section 1 BEFORE THE SNAP Article 5 says no player except the snapper shall encroach on the neutral zone. That includes the defence. I would think it reasonable and appropriate to interpret "before the snap" to mean "before the end of the snap".
The end of the snap is defined in 2-40-3 as "when the ball touches the ground or any player". Therefore I would maintain that it cannot be legally possible for a defensive player to put his hand across to touch the ball before the snap is completed since he will have encroached.

[Mike L]

You better rethink that or are you not going to allow the defense to penetrate the neutral zone until the QB in shotgun formation touches the ball?
It's really pretty simple, if the snap is done correctly it is not possible for the defense to slap the ball out of the snappers hand. Therefore, you must either have a snap infraction because the snap was not done properly or you have encroachment because the defense was in the zone prior to the snap.

[bigjohn]

Snap infraction is false start!

PENALTY: Encroachment (Arts. 1, 5, 6) – (S7-18); snap infraction (Arts. 2, 3);
false start (Art. 7) – (S7-19) – 5 yards.

[Welpe]

John those are different fouls referencing different articles of that rule.

[bigjohn]

Same signal for snap infraction and false start, same penalty.

[bigjohn]

What is the signal for snap infraction?

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Same signal for snap infraction and false start, same penalty.

Same signal for helping runner and interlocked blocking, different penalty.

[bigjohn]

If you look on the signal chart, signal 44 states both of those infractions. Signal 19 says false start or illegal formation.

http://i38.tinypic.com/iyzoqx.jpg

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Same signal for snap infraction and false start, same penalty.

Yes, the penalty is the same but it is a different foul.

ART. 7 . . . After the ball is marked ready for play and before the snap begins,
no false start shall be made by any A player. It is a false start if:
a. A shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap.
b. Any act is clearly intended to cause B to encroach.
c. Any A player on his line between the snapper and the player on the end of
his line, after having placed a hand(s) on or near the ground, moves his
hand(s) or makes any quick movement.

I don't see snap infraction listed as a reason for a false start.

This is a snap infraction:

ART. 2 . . . The snapper may lift the ball for lateral rotation but may not rotate
end-for-end or change the location or fail to keep the long axis of the ball at right
angles to the line of scrimmage.
ART. 3 . . . Following the ready-for-play and after touching the ball, the snapper
shall not:
a. Remove both hands from the ball.
b. Make any movement that simulates a snap.
c. Fail to clearly pause before the snap.
d. Following adjustment, lift or move the ball other than in a legal snap.

[bigjohn]

Those things can all cause B to encroach so they are false starts as well as snap infractions. Same thing. Same penalty same signal!

Point is if B hinders the snap or causes a false start it is USC.
Using 9-5-1d as rule.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Snap infraction is false start!

PENALTY: Encroachment (Arts. 1, 5, 6) – (S7-18); snap infraction (Arts. 2, 3);
false start (Art. 7) – (S7-19) – 5 yards.

John, you do know that a snap infraction is a foul on the offense, right?