face mask

[altus]

Quarterback drops back to pass and is tackled by the face mask - 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Where is the penalty administered from - spot of foul or previous spot? Federation rules only.

[BoBo]

it will seem unfair but the penalty will be enoforced from the end of the run.

it was intended to be a pass play (loose ball play) but it never occurred.

so you have either 5 yards or 15 yards from the end of the run replay the down.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by BoBo

it will seem unfair but the penalty will be enoforced from the end of the run.

It isn't that unfair. Why is the QB standing 20 yards back and why are his blockers letting B to get close enough to grab his facemask?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by altus

Quarterback drops back to pass and is tackled by the face mask - 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Where is the penalty administered from - spot of foul or previous spot? Federation rules only.

CANADIAN RULING:

Facemask in a UR foul: prior to yards gained, POAs are PBD or PLS. 15y + AFD.

[Reffing Rev.]

A really smart QB in this situation would fumble the football after being facemasked.

[daggo66]

How is that smart?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by daggo66

How is that smart?

It is smart because in NFHS rules, a fumble behind the LOS is a loose ball play. The face mask would be enforced from the previous spot instead the end of the run.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

A really smart QB in this situation would fumble the football after being facemasked.

A REALLY smart one would wait to fumble until after he sees a flag...

[Reffing Rev.]

Originally Posted by mbyron

A REALLY smart one would wait to fumble until after he sees a flag...

Amen.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

Amen.

And hopefully recover it.

What's worse is that I had a facemask on the QB who straight-armed a rusher and grasped the facemask (this is before the 5 yd variety came into the rules). This occurred at least 10 yds behind the LOS. Add 15 to that. Ouch!

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Forksref

What's worse is that I had a facemask on the QB who straight-armed a rusher and grasped the facemask (this is before the 5 yd variety came into the rules). This occurred at least 10 yds behind the LOS. Add 15 to that. Ouch!

But that type of enforcement was routine also in NCAA & NFL until the early 1970s, regardless of whether a loose ball ensued. Illegal use of hands in pass protection frequently resulted in a net loss of 20+ yds. Of course part of that was the fact that it was a 15 yd. penalty and that legal use of the hands & arms was more confined, but the all-but-one enforcement made pass pro a lot riskier -- and they passed a lot more than high schools did.

Robert

[BAlaxer]

Originally Posted by Welpe

It is smart because in NFHS rules, a fumble behind the LOS is a loose ball play. The face mask would be enforced from the previous spot instead the end of the run.

forgive me, but isnt the penalty enforced from the end of the run? Which would be where the fumble took place?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BAlaxer

forgive me, but isnt the penalty enforced from the end of the run? Which would be where the fumble took place?

The basic spot in FED for a loose ball foul is the previous spot, subject to all-but-one.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The basic spot in FED for a loose ball foul is the previous spot, subject to all-but-one.

And by definition a fumble behind the LOS is a loose ball play so that's why you are correct. If this fumble had occurred beyond the LOS, it would be enforced from the end of the run as a running play.

[BAlaxer]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The basic spot in FED for a loose ball foul is the previous spot, subject to all-but-one.

Where can I find this in the rules book? I am under the impression that defensive penelties are administered from the "basic spot" which would be the end of the run (fumble)