putting up with lippy players...

[buckrog64]

Reffing a recent sophomore game, one player, towards the end of what would be a lopsided victory for his team, barked at me about being held on the previous play by yelling, "You gotta be kidding me! You didn't see him holding?" I chewed on him some, told him not to address officials in such a way, etc., and chased him back to the huddle. If that were in a basketball game, I would have given him a technical foul without even hesitating. It does seem like football players and coaches can 'get away' with a little more than what is permitted by many officials in basketball. Why is that? Does b-ball require tighter control? Is it the close quarters we're in terms of being closer to the action with the players and fans? Or do the holidays make me less patient with people and I'm inclined to put up with less at the basketball game?

[OverAndBack]

Fewer players in basketball, I think. It's not as aggressive a game. Football lasts longer (usually), hits harder, emotions run higher.

That said, it seems to me like basketball coaches will get in your face more, maybe because of the closer quarters. Fans, too (there's no track separating the stands from the field - not to mention then a team bench area).

They always say to not have "rabbit ears" and some stuff you let go as heat of the moment stuff, but, as Barney Fife said, some stuff you've got to nip in the bud. Addressing an official in a disrespectful manner would be an instant flag on an adult coach, but it's very definitely at least stern talking to when it comes from a 15-year-old.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by buckrog64

Reffing a recent sophomore game, one player, towards the end of what would be a lopsided victory for his team, barked at me about being held on the previous play by yelling, "You gotta be kidding me! You didn't see him holding?" I chewed on him some, told him not to address officials in such a way, etc., and chased him back to the huddle. If that were in a basketball game, I would have given him a technical foul without even hesitating. It does seem like football players and coaches can 'get away' with a little more than what is permitted by many officials in basketball. Why is that? Does b-ball require tighter control? Is it the close quarters we're in terms of being closer to the action with the players and fans? Or do the holidays make me less patient with people and I'm inclined to put up with less at the basketball game?

I'd just tell him to worry about playing the game and less about us and walk away.

Any personal stuff or profanity would get flagged. I'm less likely to take nonsense from a youth player than I would be an adult coach.

[GoodScout]

Originally Posted by buckrog64

"You gotta be kidding me! You didn't see him holding?"

"You just play football, young man, and let me worry about the officiating."

[trocared]

As a player, i was coached not to say a word to the officials, unless I was addressed by them. At first, I was astounded by the talk the players directed to the officials, until I realized they are not coached not to talk to the officials.
I generally try not to raise my voice to the players (I have seen some officials end up looking worse than the offender by having his own tantrum), but let the coach know his player is walking a fine line. When this does not take care of a problem (usually it does), I can throw my flag with no emotion attached, because I have tried to take care of the problem in a professional manner....but man....I have to admit, I hate the lip (just ask my thirteen year old boy).
cheers,
tro

[waltjp]

Mr. Captain, please have a talk with number 55 so we don't have any problems.

[OverAndBack]

Or, you could wait until the kid misses a tackle and then say, "You gotta be kidding me, you couldn't make that tackle? The guy was right there!"

I know, I know, high road.

[ajmc]

How much lip to take from any player is a purely personal decision, just like how much lip you will listen to from your own children. You are not expected, or required, to take ANY.

Considering the emotion of the game you might consider the circumstances and allow one comment to pass, with only a stern warning that such behavior is unacceptable, which is best delivered person to person using your "little" voice. Often the reaction to this advice goes a long way in determining if that player continues to play.

The important thing is that it is not a debate, or even a two-way conversation, and the player must understand and accept that he is not speak to you in that manner again, about anything.

[HossHumard]

The culture of football (vies a vie attitudes to officials) isn't perfect, but it's miles ahead of hockey for example, and part of the reason they have a much harder time finding and retaining officials. I'll get the odd lip from kids on the field (all 110 yards of it), but coaches are still the bigger problem.

As I tell our newbies, "don't have rabbit ears where you're near the bench, but if it's getting to be too much (i.e: affecting your game), bang 'em!". It's amazing what the flag and the 10 can do to shut up a bench.

After all, we have an unlimited number of flags...and sometimes quietly telling a coach that will bring the peace and quiet you need to do a good job.

Having said that, when I was a player (waaaaaaay back when) it WAS different. I remember getting an OC from Abe Kovnats (famous CFL official of the 50's and 60's) in High School for merely shaking my head about a call he made.....how times have changed!

Thanks...and I'll go back to my rocking chair now..time for "Matlock"!

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by buckrog64

... I chewed on him some ...
... If that were in a basketball game, I would have given him a technical ...
... football players and coaches can 'get away' with a little more than what is permitted by many officials in basketball. Why is that?

So you do football and basketball, let things go in football that you would T in basketball, and wonder why officials let stuff go in football? Hmmm, sounds like you'd be the person with the better answer.

Me, I don't think I would have given that comment a notice in any sport, but I don't do basketball. The player was frustrated by the lopsided victory. I might of said, "Who was holding you? ... I'll watch him close." (Either he'll think I care or I might watch close and see I missed something.)

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by buckrog64

Reffing a recent sophomore game, one player, towards the end of what would be a lopsided victory for his team, barked at me about being held on the previous play by yelling, "You gotta be kidding me! You didn't see him holding?" I chewed on him some, told him not to address officials in such a way, etc., and chased him back to the huddle. If that were in a basketball game, I would have given him a technical foul without even hesitating. It does seem like football players and coaches can 'get away' with a little more than what is permitted by many officials in basketball. Why is that? Does b-ball require tighter control? Is it the close quarters we're in terms of being closer to the action with the players and fans? Or do the holidays make me less patient with people and I'm inclined to put up with less at the basketball game?

You don't have a flag?

They only get away with what you let them get away with.

[JasonTX]

I always talk to the coach in pregame and ask for his assistance in dealing with his players. Most coaches would be more than thankful if we could tell them so they could handle any "lippy" players so what we can prevent from throwing a flag. Be professional and don't snap at those players. I agree with SC Ump. Ask him for a number and let him know you will watch for it. If it's really bad, just tell him you didn't understand him clearly and would he mind repeating it. Chances are he'll keep it to himself, but then I'd still tell the coach about it.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

I always talk to the coach in pregame and ask for his assistance in dealing with his players. .

I was taught not to bring up "what ifs/ possible negatives" in any sports pregame with coaches. Do you really think that "asking for assistance" means anything to a coach who's thinking about the game? Seems like a waste of time and un-needed.....

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by buckrog64

Reffing a recent sophomore game, one player, towards the end of what would be a lopsided victory for his team, barked at me about being held on the previous play by yelling, "You gotta be kidding me! You didn't see him holding?" I chewed on him some, told him not to address officials in such a way, etc., and chased him back to the huddle. If that were in a basketball game, I would have given him a technical foul without even hesitating. It does seem like football players and coaches can 'get away' with a little more than what is permitted by many officials in basketball. Why is that? Does b-ball require tighter control? Is it the close quarters we're in terms of being closer to the action with the players and fans? Or do the holidays make me less patient with people and I'm inclined to put up with less at the basketball game?

It depends upon the tone of voice. A player who yells that toward me first gets a look and usually if the player has any smarts he understands what the look means. If he keeps chattering he gets a flag. I recall only one time in the past five years giving one of those.

Having been officiating several sports over 34 years starting with basketball in Ohio and Michigan in the mid to late 70s I have seen a transformation of athletic misbehavior from region to region and over time. There was a time when athletes did not say a word at the high school level, even coaches showed a high level of respect. Having been in New York now for a quarter of a century doing football the norm of disrepect has moved higher.

A few weeks ago I did a youth game and the team was lousy playing a well coached team. I threw an obvious BIB and that started the head coach. He mouthed from a minute in the first quarter through the half until middle of the third quarter about everything. He questioned why does his team have 7 penalties and the other team none. Being polite I did not answer because it was obvious. Finally the nerves were almost frayed and for my own sanity I confronted him and said I had heard enough, a key that should mean, shut up. Not him, he started to say another sentence and that was it. USC. He was so upset he went home on his own saving me another penalty.

[waltjp]

Often, it's not what is said, it's how it is said.