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REPLY: Except that the NF Rule Book and Case Book have the same author...unlike the Cliff Notes and the New Testament
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Bob M. |
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How did he come up with the spot of the foul? If you beleive this is PSK, then the end of the kick spot is on the R-16 and that's behind the spot of the foul. I think the case book result needs a little NFHS comment. It appears to me that the IW just negated any possible PSK enforcement. |
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You don't remember St. Cliff?
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"And I'm not just some fan, I've refereed football and basketball in addition to all the baseball I've umpired. I've never made a call that horrible in my life in any sport."---Greatest. Official. Ever. |
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I agree with the esteemed Mr. Heisey
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Bob M. |
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The point of the PSK EXCEPTION is to GIVE R possession, despite their penalty during the loose ball. It is in the spirit of this exception (if not the letter) to give R the ball on an IW that causes the kick to end.
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Cheers, mb |
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That's why this case play is in conflict with the rule book.
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Bob M. |
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Aaaah, it would be nice if they could at least attempt to take the guess work out of rule enforcement, huh? |
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I personally will be following the lead of my president and giving K the option of enforcing the penalty at the spot of the foul (R's ball) or replaying the down. BUT, hopefully we will never run into this situation. |
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REPLY: Regardless of where the kick ended??? So if R pushed K in the back at R's 40 and the kick was rolling at R's 15 when the IW sounded, your association president is saying to enforce from R's 40 ?? That isn't even PSK.
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Bob M. |
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I believe that if I am going to enforce PSK as the case book states, then I would hang my hat on the following:
2-24-2 - The kick ends when a player gains possession OR when the ball becomes dead while not in player possession. (note here that it does not state that the ball has come to a stop) 4-2-2j - The ball becomes dead and the down is ended...when an official sounds his whistle inadvertently. 10-4-3 - The basic spot is the spot where the kick ends when R commits a post-scrimmage kick foul (2-16-2h). R fouls behind the post-scrimmage kick spot are spot fouls. The kick and down ended, and the ball became dead, when the official blew his whistle. For this play, the enforcement spot would be the end of the kick at the R-16. If the foul had occurred behind the PSK spot, then we would enforce from the spot of the foul. Now if, as Bob M. questioned, the ball was still in the air, then we would hope to have a BJ or LJ who had their wits about them and could bag the spot where the ball was when the whistle blew. |
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Art. 3 … An inadvertent whistle ends the down. Inadvertent whistles are administered as follows: D. The penalty shall be administered as determined by the basic spot and take precedence over inadvertent whistle administration if, during the down a live-ball foul occurs prior to the inadvertent whistle and the penalty is accepted. If a kick ends without player possession beyond the LOS, R fouls beyond the NZ before the kick ended – would that qualify as PSK? Since the penalty takes precedence over the inadvertent whistle – better get a bean bag on the field, sounds like PSK to me. Bob M. - At least until they change the case play again
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Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. |
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REPLY: Yes...if all of the PSK criteria are met (just like any other scrimmage kick). My only problem is with the last criteria: Without the foul, who would next be entitled to put the ball in play? To me, that doesn't appear to be satisfied.
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Bob M. |
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