Question for the white hats.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by sloth

Any other referees in that situation willing to squint and make a live ball personal foul a dead ball personal foul...provided that the foul has no bearing on the play and the foul is imminant within a second or two?

Do not make it anything. Call it what it is. Nothing more - nothing less. When in doubt...??? I would get the entire crew together to see if anyone had definite knowledge of the status of the ball. If no one did, I would probably go dead ball on one that close.

I had a reverse situation earlier this year. A linebacker took a cheap shot at an offensive lineman on a long run. The hit happened just after the runner entered the end zone. I would have loved to have made it live ball and enforced it on the kickoff, but I didn't, because it wasn't. We went half the distance on the try.

[hawkishowl20]

Can someone state the rule that defines a clean hit or block as a penalty due to its position in relationship to the ball / play. I honestly just cannot find it. I want to educate about this but I don’t have the parameters to do so.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by hawkishowl20

Can someone state the rule that defines a clean hit or block as a penalty due to its position in relationship to the ball / play. I honestly just cannot find it. I want to educate about this but I don’t have the parameters to do so.

REPLY: NF 9-4-3: (in part) "No player or nonplayer shall:
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.
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b. Charge into or throw an opponent to the ground after he is obviously out of the play, or after the ball is clearly dead either in or out of bounds.
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g. Make any other contact with an opponent which is deemed unnecessary and which incites roughness."

[hawkishowl20]

That is what I remembered. I guess I was hoping their was some guideline as to what obviously out of the play is. 10 yards from ball? 15? 20? Behind the ball? In front of? I know this is ticky tac, but I’m curious as to what others think it is.

I know this is ridiculous, but you could interrupt “out of the play” as virtually impossible because they are on a football field during a “play.” That is what the old and masochistic coaches think. I don’t know the guideline as to what that definition is, I can only guess… which I try to eliminate by asking questions.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by hawkishowl20

That is what I remembered. I guess I was hoping their was some guideline as to what obviously out of the play is. 10 yards from ball? 15? 20? Behind the ball? In front of? I know this is ticky tac, but I’m curious as to what others think it is.

I know this is ridiculous, but you could interrupt “out of the play” as virtually impossible because they are on a football field during a “play.” That is what the old and masochistic coaches think. I don’t know the guideline as to what that definition is, I can only guess… which I try to eliminate by asking questions.

If a player can't possibly get to the ball carrier before he gets to the goal line, he would be out of the play. It's simply a matter of judgment. That's why we get the big bucks.

[hawkishowl20]

Thanks,
I know thats why we get the big bucks, but I like to be able to explain my judgment process to other people without saying my judgment says so.

ticky tac:
So, if the ball carrier can't/doesn't score, yet is far away can you call this?

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by hawkishowl20

Thanks,
I know thats why we get the big bucks, but I like to be able to explain my judgment process to other people without saying my judgment says so.

ticky tac:
So, if the ball carrier can't/doesn't score, yet is far away can you call this?

I can't give you a hard yardage answer. Just tell the coach the player who was blocked was well out of the play and the hit was totally unnecessary.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by hawkishowl20

Thanks,
...So, if the ball carrier can't/doesn't score, yet is far away can you call this?

REPLY: Absolutely.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Jim D

If a player can't possibly get to the ball carrier ...

REPLY: Or if he isn't trying to.

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by hawkishowl20

That is what I remembered. I guess I was hoping their was some guideline as to what obviously out of the play is. 10 yards from ball? 15? 20? Behind the ball? In front of? I know this is ticky tac, but I’m curious as to what others think it is.

I know this is ridiculous, but you could interrupt “out of the play” as virtually impossible because they are on a football field during a “play.” That is what the old and masochistic coaches think. I don’t know the guideline as to what that definition is, I can only guess… which I try to eliminate by asking questions.

The majority of these will jump out at you if you are being a good clean-up official. You will see the player carrying the brick and targetting an unsuspecting opponent.

A player who is either jogging downfield without a care as to where the ball is or a player standing still watching the ball are often targeted for this kind of illegal hit. However, those aren't the only two that can be fouled. A player in chase mode who is losing ground to the runner and more of an observer can also be fouled if you judge him to be "out of the play". The first two should be easy to get. The third one is more difficult.

[OverAndBack]

Judgment. Takes time to hone one's judgment in this game. Often there aren't hard and fast rules. Sometimes there are. Sometimes it's a matter of one guy might say 20 yards isn't enough and another might say the guy has given himself up so it was just totally unnecessary and he's flagging it.