Little help

[Theisey]

As soon as it's snapped.. !

Of course the coach could be wrong.. but he's not!. He's making the other
team think he's wrong and that there is a problem he needs to correct.
It's BS all the way.

[daggo66]

Robert, when you're on the field and this happens, it's very obvious the coach is not simply mistaken.

Originally Posted by daggo66

Robert, when you're on the field and this happens, it's very obvious the coach is not simply mistaken.

Especially when you counted/signaled 11 prior to the BS unfolding. It was so rehearsed
So whether it's IP or USC the result is the same, 15 yrds & repeat the down?

[daggo66]

USC, even when it occurs during a play, is always administered as a dead ball foul.

Thanks for the clarifications, I appreciate it!

[Mike L]

So some choose to use the "snap is not imminent" rule (a USC) rather than the pretended substitution rule (a IP)?

[Bullycon]

First-year official here, but allow me to cast my vote for the illegal participation. This is covered by Rule 9-6-4d.

The Case Book example referenced above doesn't fit this play as well as this rule does. Rule 9-9-1 applies to "an unfair act which has no specific rule coverage." This play has rule coverage.

Live ball foul. 15 yards from previous spot.

[Forksref]

I wouldn't call IP because you had 11 players and he never left the field and came back in.

You won't know of the deceit until after the snap and he cuts upfield. Then I would have USC. You flag the USC but why stop the play? You wouldn't stop it if someone dropped the F-bomb on you during a play. What happens if the pass is intercepted?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Theisey

As soon as it's snapped.. !

I doubt that. The player could still be ostensibly exiting, moving toward the sideline, as the ball is snapped, probably not turning upfield until after the snap. Are you allowed to kill the play at that time?

I've been on the sideline enough to know that the coaching staff can all be mistaken and pull one of 11 off the field.

Robert

[wolfgang70]

If that's the case then the player wouldn't have turned upfield for the play. USC, blow it dead. Don't allow this play to develop.

How can it be IP though? If there are 11 players on the field then by definition it's not IP right? Unless he didn't check at the numbers but, unless I'm reading wrong, he came from the direction of the huddle. As long as the formation is correct then there wouldn't be a problem as long as the player left the field and didn't come back right?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by wolfgang70

If that's the case then the player wouldn't have turned upfield for the play. USC, blow it dead. Don't allow this play to develop.

But you don't see the player turn upfield until the ball is in play. I take your answer to mean, yes, you are empowered to blow it dead after the play begins.

Robert

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I doubt that. The player could still be ostensibly exiting, moving toward the sideline, as the ball is snapped, probably not turning upfield until after the snap. Are you allowed to kill the play at that time?

I've been on the sideline enough to know that the coaching staff can all be mistaken and pull one of 11 off the field.

Robert

Bob, stick with the play description... the original posted stated something like "do you let the kid run to the EZ after a mysterious catch" .
You know he had to have turn up-field at the snap. This cannot be permitted, the play is to be killed.
For all practical purposes, it was killed at the snap, even though it might have been a second or two delay to as you point out to be sure he was not just running off the field.

You'lll not see this linf of play at the Varsity level nor JV level, but you can almost count on it at the Pop-Warner / Youth Football level because of the type of coaches they have. They just don't know nor understand the rules of the game as they dream up these trick plays.