Little help

Fed Rules: 4th and 2 sticks Team A uses the sideline for deceit. Is that a USC penalty 15 yrds from LOS? Loss of down or repeat 4th down? Do you throw the flag & let the kid to run to the EZ or blow it dead on the catch by the mysterious wide open player?

Thanks in advance!

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Fed Rules: 4th and 2 sticks Team A uses the sideline for deceit. Is that a USC penalty 15 yrds from LOS? Loss of down or repeat 4th down? Do you throw the flag & let the kid to run to the EZ or blow it dead on the catch by the mysterious wide open player?

Thanks in advance!

How did he do this? Was it a pretended substitution or did he just hide and hope not to be seen?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Fed Rules: 4th and 2 sticks Team A uses the sideline for deceit. Is that a USC penalty 15 yrds from LOS? Loss of down or repeat 4th down? Do you throw the flag & let the kid to run to the EZ or blow it dead on the catch by the mysterious wide open player?

Thanks in advance!

Details on how the player got there. If he simply didn't come inside the 9-yard mark between the RFP and the snap, it's illegal formation, live ball, 5 yard penalty from the previous spot.

The players on the field realized *wink-wink* that they had 12 players.

"Johnny what are you doing, get off the field".

Keep in mind, I already counted 11 and signaled with the Ump.

Coaching staff: "what are you doing get off the field".

He gets pretty close to being off the field & darts 20 yards downfield where he is hit with a bullet & scores 6.

[mbyron]

Deceit as such is not illegal. If the player met the formation requirements mentioned by Rich above, then the play is legal, play on.

What rule do you think team A violated?

[Mike L]

It is illegal participation to use a player in a substitution or pretended substitution to decieve opponents at or before the snap. Live ball, previous spot, 15 yds.

Originally Posted by mbyron

Deceit as such is not illegal

Oh really?

Originally Posted by Mike L

It is illegal participation to use a player in a substitution or pretended substitution to decieve opponents at or before the snap. Live ball, previous spot, 15 yds.

So not USC but IP instead, 15 yds from LOS & repeat 4th down in this sitch??

[Gmoore]

3.7.3 SITUATION A: B11 mistakenly believes he is his team's 12th player and
leaves the field before the snap (a) on his opponent's sideline, or (b) on his sideline
and enters his team box. B11 then discovers his error and returns to field on
his team's side of the neutral zone before the snap. RULING: In (a) B11 has committed
illegal substitution by leaving on the opponent’s sideline. (3-7-2) In (b),
there is no foul as long as B11 remains a player. (2-32-1) If done intentionally to gain an advantage, it is an illegal participation foul or it could be an unsportsmanlike foul. If B11 returns to the field after the snap in either (a) or (b) and participates,it is a live-ball foul for illegal participation. (9-5-1f; 9-6-4 a and d)

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

..
....
Coaching staff: "what are you doing get off the field".

As soon as the coach uses those words, he has stepped over the line.

Classic example of CB 9.9.3.Sit-B

Kill this play IMMEDIATELY and hit for 15 yards.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Theisey

As soon as the coach uses those words, he has stepped over the line.

Classic example of CB 9.9.3.Sit-B

Kill this play IMMEDIATELY and hit for 15 yards.

Bingo.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Theisey

As soon as the coach uses those words, he has stepped over the line.

You don't know that until the play develops. The coach could easily just have been mistaken.

Classic example of CB 9.9.3.Sit-B

Kill this play IMMEDIATELY and hit for 15 yards.

What does "immediately" mean? You don't know it's intentional until the player at least turns upfield.

Robert

[Theisey]

As soon as it's snapped.. !

Of course the coach could be wrong.. but he's not!. He's making the other
team think he's wrong and that there is a problem he needs to correct.
It's BS all the way.

[daggo66]

Robert, when you're on the field and this happens, it's very obvious the coach is not simply mistaken.

Originally Posted by daggo66

Robert, when you're on the field and this happens, it's very obvious the coach is not simply mistaken.

Especially when you counted/signaled 11 prior to the BS unfolding. It was so rehearsed
So whether it's IP or USC the result is the same, 15 yrds & repeat the down?

[daggo66]

USC, even when it occurs during a play, is always administered as a dead ball foul.