Little help

Thanks for the clarifications, I appreciate it!

[Mike L]

So some choose to use the "snap is not imminent" rule (a USC) rather than the pretended substitution rule (a IP)?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Theisey

As soon as it's snapped.. !

I doubt that. The player could still be ostensibly exiting, moving toward the sideline, as the ball is snapped, probably not turning upfield until after the snap. Are you allowed to kill the play at that time?

I've been on the sideline enough to know that the coaching staff can all be mistaken and pull one of 11 off the field.

Robert

[wolfgang70]

If that's the case then the player wouldn't have turned upfield for the play. USC, blow it dead. Don't allow this play to develop.

How can it be IP though? If there are 11 players on the field then by definition it's not IP right? Unless he didn't check at the numbers but, unless I'm reading wrong, he came from the direction of the huddle. As long as the formation is correct then there wouldn't be a problem as long as the player left the field and didn't come back right?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Theisey

As soon as the coach uses those words, he has stepped over the line.

Classic example of CB 9.9.3.Sit-B

Kill this play IMMEDIATELY and hit for 15 yards.

USC if we realize this before the play. IP if we talk about it after the fact. Either way we're taking 15 yards from the previous spot.

[svm1010]

Originally Posted by waltjp

USC if we realize this before the play. IP if we talk about it after the fact. Either way we're taking 15 yards from the previous spot.

Wait a minute. IP and USC are not the same, and should never be treated as such.

Yes you can have IP for a "pretend substitute"
and you can have USC for an unfair act

Keep in mind that IP is a 15 yard replay the down and we move on
USC is 15 yards, replay the down, and one more the coach is gone! (cause the coach is getting this one for teaching it IMHO)

What message do you want to send?

[trocared]

Originally Posted by svm1010

Wait a minute. IP and USC are not the same, and should never be treated as such.

Yes you can have IP for a "pretend substitute"
and you can have USC for an unfair act

Keep in mind that IP is a 15 yard replay the down and we move on
USC is 15 yards, replay the down, and one more the coach is gone! (cause the coach is getting this one for teaching it IMHO)

What message do you want to send?

Total bush league...in an 8th grade game a few years ago in my hometown, the quarterback started under center, threw his hands up in disgust, went in motion to his sideline yelling that he forgot the play, coach was yelling "now what?".
Having a pretty good idea what was coming next the ball was snapped. I blew it dead at the snap 15yd USC.

Look up youth football plays on youtube, and before long you will find the ole' "coach, we have the wrong ball", as the center hands the ball to the qb, who walks around end, and takes off running.
again...total b.s.
I vote the next youth fb coach who does that gets stringed up, holding a sign that says, "I am an idiot".
cheers,
tro

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I doubt that. The player could still be ostensibly exiting, moving toward the sideline, as the ball is snapped, probably not turning upfield until after the snap. Are you allowed to kill the play at that time?

I've been on the sideline enough to know that the coaching staff can all be mistaken and pull one of 11 off the field.

Robert

Bob, stick with the play description... the original posted stated something like "do you let the kid run to the EZ after a mysterious catch" .
You know he had to have turn up-field at the snap. This cannot be permitted, the play is to be killed.
For all practical purposes, it was killed at the snap, even though it might have been a second or two delay to as you point out to be sure he was not just running off the field.

You'lll not see this linf of play at the Varsity level nor JV level, but you can almost count on it at the Pop-Warner / Youth Football level because of the type of coaches they have. They just don't know nor understand the rules of the game as they dream up these trick plays.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by wolfgang70

If that's the case then the player wouldn't have turned upfield for the play. USC, blow it dead. Don't allow this play to develop.

But you don't see the player turn upfield until the ball is in play. I take your answer to mean, yes, you are empowered to blow it dead after the play begins.

Robert

[Bullycon]

First-year official here, but allow me to cast my vote for the illegal participation. This is covered by Rule 9-6-4d.

The Case Book example referenced above doesn't fit this play as well as this rule does. Rule 9-9-1 applies to "an unfair act which has no specific rule coverage." This play has rule coverage.

Live ball foul. 15 yards from previous spot.

[Forksref]

I wouldn't call IP because you had 11 players and he never left the field and came back in.

You won't know of the deceit until after the snap and he cuts upfield. Then I would have USC. You flag the USC but why stop the play? You wouldn't stop it if someone dropped the F-bomb on you during a play. What happens if the pass is intercepted?