Nfhs 8.3.9

[MNBlue]

"After a try, the opponent of the scoring team shall designate which team will kick off."

I had a first year official ask me "WTF", why would they ever choose to kick. I have never seen it happen - anyone else ever see it?

What is the history behind this rule?

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I've never seen it, but I've always known it's there. I've heard of it being used in 'blow-out' situations as a 'mercy' tactic. I'll look up the history of the rule tonight when I get home.

[Blue37]

I have never seen it, but the following scenario was given many years ago: Team scores with very little time to go up by 2. The opponent feels they have a better chance of recovering a pooch kick than they have of returning the kick to within field goal range.

[LDUB]

This is from the 1924 Illinois-Michigan game:

"Not until the Michigan game on Oct. 18, 1924, did Grange reach legendary status. He returned the opening kickoff 95 yards for a touchdown. Then he scored on runs of 67, 56 and 44 yards. All this in the first 12 minutes. The four touchdowns were as many as Michigan had allowed in the two previous seasons."

Illinois scored on the opening kickoff after which Michigan elected to kickoff again. Grange scored kept scoring and Michigan kept wanting to kickoff. Grange socred 4 touchdowns in the first quarter and Michigan kicked off 4 times.

According to Red Grange and the Rise of Modern Football by John Martin Carroll the game of footbal in that time was defensive and centered around ball control. The kicking game was important as it could be used to give the opponent poor field position, after wich one mistake by the offense could end up deciding the game. Most Big 10 games in the 1920's were decided by 1 touchdown or less. Offenses did not move the ball much; a deep free kick was a much better way of advancing the ball rather than recieving and attempting to move it while on offense.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

"After a try, the opponent of the scoring team shall designate which team will kick off."

I had a first year official ask me "WTF", why would they ever choose to kick. I have never seen it happen - anyone else ever see it?

What is the history behind this rule?

CANADIAN RULING:

Same thing exists up here. Never seen it. We rarely mention or talk about it.

[nelson_28602]

I may not have all this correct, but I think in the old "Hula Bowl" game played in Honululu, the game used this rule in the 4th quarter. If you scored and you were behind, you RECEIVED the next kickoff! I cannot remember if this was an All-Star game or an actual bowl contest. Maybe someone else may remember this.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

"After a try, the opponent of the scoring team shall designate which team will kick off."

I had a first year official ask me "WTF", why would they ever choose to kick. I have never seen it happen - anyone else ever see it?

What is the history behind this rule?

The previous rule had been that the team that was scored on had to kick off -- but they wanted to, anyway. The rule originated when the kickoff was from midfield (center of the 55) and the ball didn't have to travel any minimum distance forward to be played by either team. It was common to tap the kickoff and pick the ball up.

Robert

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

CANADIAN RULING:

Same thing exists up here. Never seen it. We rarely mention or talk about it.

Yeah, but I saw it on one of those CFL games NBC televised during a NFL strike. A team which was far behind scored a TD, recovered their onside kick, scored another, and then the scored-against team, still well ahead, kicked off deep (at that time from the 45) to prevent the other team from recovering yet another with good field position. It helps that in Canadian football you don't have to yield opportunity to catch the ball and you can advance your own kickoff.

Robert

[wwcfoa43]

When I played junior high school football, our league did not have good punters and field position was paramount. Our coaches decided to kick-off many times when scored upon to put the ball in the opponent's end.

[CaUmpJW]

I have seen it used once. The coach was up 66 to 0 when the opponent finally scored against his third stringers. He elected kick off to them. I do not know how the coach knew about the rule. It was class on his part.

[HL Clippenchain]

OK, since we're talking about this...

Let's say, A scores on a windy day and a sloggy field. The try for point ties the game early in the 4th quarter. B's captain informs you that they want to kick.

How do you go about informing both sides what is about to happen (assuming you're not mic'ed)?

Do we call both teams captains out to the 50?
Do we only communicate to an A captain, since B knows what's going on?
Do we simply trot over to A's coach and tell him what's up?
Do we confirm with B's coach that he wants to kick, then go to A's coach to inform him?
Is there a signal or indication that R needs to make?

Basically, I'm just wondering that how we communicate this to all interested parties in an efficient manner, keeping in mind that it will NEVER happen.

Thanks,
HLC

[JugglingReferee]

I can see this choice being used in Canada when late in the game, the team scored upon previously elected to apply a UR foul (to their benefit) on the ensuing kick-off, and the try tied the game or put A up by 1.

Play: 0:16 left in the 4Q. A scores, and after the foul, A also commits UR. B chooses to apply on the kick-off, because they believe that A's quality kicker wll make the PAT on the try anyway.

Ruling: With the expected choice of A kicking-off, they would do so 15 yards back, at their own 30. But B surprises us and elects to kick-off. Instead of their own 45, they now kick-off at the A-50. Kicking a single point here could win the game.

[jack015]

The rule states "after a try" the opponet of the scoring team chooses who will kickoff. Do they have the same option after a successful field goal?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by jack015

The rule states "after a try" the opponet of the scoring team chooses who will kickoff. Do they have the same option after a successful field goal?

I think so in most USAn codes. However, in the NFL ~30 years ago they eliminated the choice after a try but kept it for a few years after a FG before eliminating it there too. I don't know what they were thinking.

Earlier than that in Canadian football they gave the team scored against the additional option of resuming play as if only a rouge, rather than a FG, had been scored against them. At the time that meant scrimmaging from their own 35, and AFAIK that one's still in effect; but the CFL later adopted a rule making the PLS the place to resume following a rouge, but not following a FG, if farther out than the 35.

The only other option I think would be interesting in those versions of football where the goals are on the goal line (only Canadian football now) would be for the ball to remain live following a FG and for play to simply continue. A version of that would be interesting in basketball too. Maybe even lacrosse or hockey if you removed the goal nets.

Robert

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I think so in most USAn codes. However, in the NFL ~30 years ago they eliminated the choice after a try but kept it for a few years after a FG before eliminating it there too. I don't know what they were thinking.

Earlier than that in Canadian football they gave the team scored against the additional option of resuming play as if only a rouge, rather than a FG, had been scored against them. At the time that meant scrimmaging from their own 35, and AFAIK that one's still in effect; but the CFL later adopted a rule making the PLS the place to resume following a rouge, but not following a FG, if farther out than the 35.

The only other option I think would be interesting in those versions of football where the goals are on the goal line (only Canadian football now) would be for the ball to remain live following a FG and for play to simply continue. A version of that would be interesting in basketball too. Maybe even lacrosse or hockey if you removed the goal nets.

Robert

True! And in our NCAA-equivalent games, it is always a pre-game mention for the HL to mentally note the LS if a FGA is from outside the 35, because should a downsbox move when they're not supposed to, the HL's memory serves as a backup.

Also note that if the PLS is used, the scrimmaging team DOES NOT get the chance to choose from where between the hash marks the snap is: it is from the PLS, which is the Point of Last Scrimmage, not the Previous Line of Scrimmage.

Having a missed FGA live in Canadian football is very very exciting! As soon as the kicked FGA crosses the LS, the side guys go down to cover the pylons, and along with the deep guys, get the "inside-outside look" that we stress.