Illegal Forward Pass

[BktBallRef]

Do you have the torpedo flag that has a second wrap of tape on it or the long toss flag with additional weight pictured below? They're made to fly further.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by ljdave

I just learned this weekend that I need practice. I had my first college FB experience; I was the FJ in a scrimmage, and my flag on a DPI came up almost ten yards short!! Any advice as to how I can get the flag to fly better? I'm thinking of wrapping the ball with white tape...

BBR is right: grab the torpedo flag if you don't already. Are you too far from the play, such that you'd have to be Superman for the flag to hit Spot of Foul? I think there's an advantage of distance to have a certain parabola to the throw, too. Are you throwing the torgedo flag with the ball as the lead?

[ajmc]

It's important to remenber that it's much more important that the bean bag, when targeting something within the field, identify a yardline, rather than a specific spot. Especially with an IFP, the spot is irrelevant and it's the yardline, in relation to the NZ, that matters.

Rather than throw a beanbag to try and pinpoint a specific spot, that may often be in the middle of all sorts of traffic, it's better to simply square off to that spot anywhere along that yardline and drop the bag. Of course, sideline spots is a different story.

[GoodScout]

Our state mechanics stress that the U should be at the LOS for a pass play (we get dinged on evaluations if we're not). I've never had an R overrule me on a pass past the line of scrimmage, and given that I have the best angle to judge this, we'd probably have a lengthy discussion about it if he wanted to wave it off -- or call it if I clearly saw the passer's feet behind the line.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by dumbref

In a crew of five, (excluding any GL procedures) I feel the wing's first responsibilty has to be the receivers and should not come back toward the LOS until they are certain the QB is beyond the LOS - so I do not expect help from them. The U can help if the QB is between him and the box - but to the LJ side he has no reference point. I know he steps up on pass, but it is guess as to whether he is exactly on the line.

When I was a LJ, I would drift down 5-10 yards with the receivers as my primary key. If when looking quickly to the backfield I see the QB scrambling my way, I would drift back toward the LOS while still watching my receivers. The reason I did that was I had forward progress if the QB was tackled. In doing that it could be possible for me to help with IFP/LOS.

If the U gets to the LOS, it doesn't matter if he's looking toward the box side or the press box side, he's still on the LOS. If nothing else, his responsibility is the LOS while the Rs responsibility is protecting the QB. The U is also either on the LOS or very near while the R is at least 3-5 yards behind the LOS so I don't understand any circumstance where the R has a better view of this play than the U. It's also the basics of everything I've been taught for a U to cover the LOS for ineligible downfield and IFP. I'm very surprised to hear other states use a completely different mechanic.

[daggo66]

In answer to the original poster, this sounds like something the should be discussed and determined in your next pre-game.

[Old-Dawg]

Who's call should be talked about during the pre-game.

From my stand point you should never over-rule another officials judgment call. Get together and talk it over and let him/her pick up their own flag.

After you over-rule a fellow official enough don't be surprised if you have trouble getting them to drop a flag at all. I was sent out a couple of years ago to do an eval on some new officials. On one play an A player never came inside the numbers so the LJ (eight year veteran)dropped a flag. The WH came over and told him to pick it up that "We don't call that kind of cheap stuff." I was very sorry the following year when the LJ did not come back.

If it is a misapplication or interpation of a rule, over-ruling is fine and your responsibility but not your place to question their judgment on the field.

[Forksref]

As R, I have the call as I am the one following the QB. The wings are downfield in our 5-man format. The U backs me up but is more concerned with blocking and ineligibles illegally downfield. The U is invariably farther away from the QB when the ball is thrown since these are usually rollout plays. Many times there are players between the U and the QB so he doesn't have the "perfect" view plus, if it is to the LJ side, he will have to look back over his shoulder to see the downbox and miss the action that he is supposed to watch. I watch where the QB is when the ball is thrown and I go to that spot and stop, keeping my head up and continuing to officiate. When the play is over, I look to the chain side for the downbox and make my judgment. If I had to continue to move downfield to officiate, I'd drop my beanbag at the spot. After watching our crew on game tapes, I've seen us get it right every time. My U will let me know his opinion and we have agreed 100% in the past. When he is 100% certain we go with his call. I had one the other night where I thought it was close, but, upon reaching the spot and waiting for the play to end and check, I realized the QB was about 2-3 yds short, but our mechanic on the play worked.