Illegal Forward Pass

[Grey Hare]

I know this subject came up somewhere on this board before, but I wanted to revisit it concerning Illegal Forward Pass.

On the NFHS web site, it describes the illegal forward pass play as:
Team A has the ball first and 10 on its own 5 yard line. A1 drops back and intends to throw a backward pass to A2. The pass is actually thrown forward. A2 then throws a forward pass that actually falls incomplete.
RULING: Illegal forward pass. If the penalty is accepted it is enforced from where the illegal pass was thrown. Since that spot is the endzone the result is a safety.
Ok, I've got no problem with that so far. But, then it goes on to say, If the penalty is declined the down counts and the result is a safety since the end of the run was also in the end zone.

Why would B decline such a penalty? An illegal pass carries a loss of down anyway. In this case, if the penalty was accepted would you enforce the 5 yard penalty from the suceeding spot (since this was a loose ball play) that is the 20 yd line and have A kick from the 15?

Maybe I'm reading too deep into this, but I would like input from others............Thanks

[Topshelf]

Originally posted by Grey Hare

Why would B decline such a penalty? An illegal pass carries a loss of down anyway. In this case, if the penalty was accepted would you enforce the 5 yard penalty from the suceeding spot (since this was a loose ball play) that is the 20 yd line and have A kick from the 15?

Maybe I'm reading too deep into this, but I would like input from others............Thanks

Noone knows why B would decline, but it really does not matter. It is incorrect to rule that this foul occurred during a loose ball play. The loose ball play ended when the first pass was caught. (And by the way, penalty enforcement on a loose ball play is from the previous spot). Now we have a running play. Where did the run end??? The spot where the illegal pass was thrown. So, if the penalty is accepted, then it is penalized from the spot of the foul (all but one), which results in a safety. If the penalty is declined, then the ball is spotted at the end of the run (the EZ), which results in a safety.

I'm not sure where the information about the 20 yd line and kicking from the 15 came from. Perhaps there was more to the play???

[Warrenkicker]

7-5-3 If the penalty for an illegal forward pass is accepted, measurement is from the spot of such forward pass. If the offended team declines the distance penalty, it has the choice of having the down counted at the spot of the illegal incomplete forward pass or (if the illegal forward pass is caught or intercepted) of having the ball put in play as determined by the action which followed the catch.

So you never use the previous spot for IFP. If the foul occurs in A's end zone then the only way it won't be a safety is if the pass is caught and B wants the result of the rest of the play.

[waltjp]

Originally posted by Topshelf

Noone knows why B would decline, but it really does not matter.

B would decline because their bone-headed coach wouldn't listen to the options and knew the only way to get the ball back would be to decline the penalty.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally posted by Grey Hare
Why would B decline such a penalty? An illegal pass carries a loss of down anyway. In this case, if the penalty was accepted would you enforce the 5 yard penalty from the suceeding spot (since this was a loose ball play) that is the 20 yd line and have A kick from the 15?

Nope - live-ball penalties on plays where a safety is scored may not be enforced on the succeeding kickoff.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Grey Hare
I know this subject came up somewhere on this board before, but I wanted to revisit it concerning Illegal Forward Pass.

On the NFHS web site, it describes the illegal forward pass play as:

Team A has the ball first and 10 on its own 5 yard line. A1 drops back and intends to throw a backward pass to A2. The pass is actually thrown forward. A2 then throws a forward pass that actually falls incomplete.

Illegal forward pass, 10 yards or ½ the distance from previous spot. Accept and repeat the down, decline and roll the down.

However, in the Fed ruling posted, it implies the end zone is involved. If this is true: amend the above application to:

Decline the penalty and continue with an incomplete pass. Accept the penalty and earn a safety touch.

[Grey Hare]

Wow! I'm gone for a couple of hours, and already there were 5 responses. This is great! I'm not questioning the ruling of live ball penalties involving a safety not being enforced from the succeeding spot, but where can I find this in the rule book?

[Warrenkicker]

10-5-1 includes all scoring plays except safeties.

[Jaysef]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Illegal forward pass, 10 yards or ½ the distance from previous spot. Accept and repeat the down, decline and roll the down.

However, in the Fed ruling posted, it implies the end zone is involved. If this is true: amend the above application to:

Decline the penalty and continue with an incomplete pass. Accept the penalty and earn a safety touch.

[Jaysef]

Illegal forward pass, 10 yards or ½ the distance from previous spot. Accept and repeat the down, decline and roll the down.


I don't get it Juggling, how could you repeat the down on An IFP? Don't you lose the down?

Jaysef

[Jaysef]

Nevermind my bonehead post, I just realized you were explaining Canadian Ruling...my fault

J

[PSU213]

Originally posted by Topshelf
(And by the way, penalty enforcement on a loose ball play is from the previous spot).

I don't mean to split hairs here, but it is the basic spot for a loose ball play that would be the previous spot. If the foul is by the offense and behind that spot, then the enforcement spot is the spot of the foul (the one in-all but-one).

[Topshelf]

Originally posted by PSU213

I don't mean to split hairs here, but it is the basic spot for a loose ball play that would be the previous spot. If the foul is by the offense and behind that spot, then the enforcement spot is the spot of the foul (the one in-all but-one).

You are correct. I was responding to the statement by the previous poster that loose ball penalties were enforced from the succeeding spot. I referred to the enforcement spot for this particular play (using the all-but-one) a few lines later in the post.