The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2007, 01:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 747
Poinsettia Bowl Pylon Question

The Utah runner is trying to score and lunges toward the end zone at the pylon. While in the air he releases the ball which deflects off the pylon and lands out of bounds.

The ruling on the field was Utah ball at the one yard line.

The replay clearly shows the player in the air, the ball free before it glances off the pylon.

The replay official upholds the ruling on the field with an explanation to the TV crew that the player was out of bounds when the ball hit the pylon.

The Rulebook says:

SECTION 2. Out of Bounds
Player Out of Bounds
ARTICLE 1. a. A player or an airborne player is out of bounds when any
part of his person touches anything, other than another player or game
official, on or outside a boundary line (A.R. 4-2-1-I and II).
b. A player or an airborne player who touches a pylon is out of bounds.


This was clearly not the case since the player did not touch anything out of bounds while he had possession of the ball and never touched the pylon.


Held Ball Out of Bounds
ARTICLE 2. A ball in player possession is out of bounds when either the
ball or any part of the runner touches the ground or anything else that is on
or outside a boundary line except another player or game official.


Also not applicable in this case


Ball Out of Bounds
ARTICLE 3. a. A ball not in player possession, other than a kick that scores
a field goal, is out of bounds when it touches the ground, a player, a game
official or anything else that is on or outside a boundary line.
b. A ball that touches a pylon is out of bounds behind the goal line.
c. If a live ball not in player possession crosses a boundary line and then is
declared out of bounds, it is out of bounds at the crossing point.


Clearly B was what happened in this play.

So the question is if the ball was out of bounds behind the goal line, as described above, was the spotting of the ball at the one the correct call?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2007, 02:17am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1
Pylon Play

What was the discussion on the TV? Not that they necessarily know, but from the live view and the replay on the JumboTron at the stadium, it sure looked like the ball was out and then hit the pylon. Or maybe I was just watching it with my Navy glasses on!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2007, 02:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 747
Lou Holtz thought the play should have resulted in a touchback.
The play-by-play guy said later they were informed by the replay officials that the runner was out of bounds.

The replay clearly shows the runner was airborne and the ball was not in his possession when it deflected off the pylon out of bounds.

It is still unclear to me by the rules why the player would be ruled out of bounds. But that is why I made the post, to get clarification.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2007, 02:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 747
Well, the play was decided incorrectly.

The AP reports:

;;;;;;;"Afterward, the officials released a statement saying a mistake was made, and the play should have been ruled a touchback, with Navy getting the ball at its 20...."""

How can a replay official be so blatantly wrong? Just another in a long line of replay mistakes.

And remember, we were told replay was supposed to get it right.

I'd feel a lot better, if I was a Navy fan, if it was a simple mistake by the game officials who don't get numerous slo-mo replays.

But to blow the call on replay is inexcusable.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2007, 07:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 127
Problem here appears to be an unnecessary "quick call" and lack of communications. It's being reported that the R told the replay official that the crew on the field had the runner OB before losing the ball.

The replay official also has been quoted as saying that he was told the call was that the runner was down OB at the 1 before the fumble.

If the runner is ruled down before the fumble then it's my understanding based on the NCAA replay rules that the call can't be changed by replay. So the error here was not related to replay but to the actual call on the field.
__________________
"It's easy to get the players, Getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part." - Casey Stengel
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2007, 08:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 127
Applicable rule is: RULE 12 INSTANT REPLAY

SECTION 3. Reviewable Plays ..... Side Line, Goal Line, End Line

ARTICLE 1. Reviewable plays governed by a side line, goal line or an end line include:

c. A runner or pass receiver ruled in or out of bounds. If a runner is ruled out of bounds, the play is not reviewable.
__________________
"It's easy to get the players, Getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part." - Casey Stengel
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2007, 08:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyGardner
Applicable rule is: RULE 12 INSTANT REPLAY

SECTION 3. Reviewable Plays ..... Side Line, Goal Line, End Line

ARTICLE 1. Reviewable plays governed by a side line, goal line or an end line include:

c. A runner or pass receiver ruled in or out of bounds. If a runner is ruled out of bounds, the play is not reviewable.
I think what was ruled was that the BALL was out of bounds, not the runner.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2007, 10:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 747
The officials, from the MAC conference, released a statement after the game admitting the call was wrong and the ball should have been turned over to Navy on a touchback.


It is one thing to have the officials on the field make a mistake on a bang bang call. But the play was reviewed, and reviewed,and the correct call was obvious and they still blew it.

No one can legitimately argue that the outcome of the game would have been different had the correct call been made.

But why in the world do we have to put up with a system that slows the game down and still can't get it right?

The players and the fans in the stands deserve better.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2007, 02:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montgomery Alabama
Posts: 60
jimpiano do you officiate?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2007, 03:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: N.D.
Posts: 1,829
NCAA rule?

The R gave a clipping signal and announced, "Illegal block." Is the NCAA different from FED in this regard?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2007, 05:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 747
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickelDeuce
jimpiano do you officiate?
Yes, I officiate softball and baseball.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2007, 08:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,191
Quote:
The R gave a clipping signal and announced, "Illegal block." Is the NCAA different from FED in this regard?
Not sure what fed is, but a clipping signal in NCAA is the right hand behind the right leg and (IMO) should be preceded by a PF signal since it falls under the PF rule. However, I'm not sure if that's required under the CCA manual. At any rate, I would, as an R, say "clipping" and not "illegal block," but clipping is an illegal block and maybe he just had a brain freeze when he turned on the mic. We've all been there.

If that's the worst thing that happened, then they had a great game.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 22, 2007, 12:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpiano
The officials, from the MAC conference, released a statement after the game admitting the call was wrong and the ball should have been turned over to Navy on a touchback.


It is one thing to have the officials on the field make a mistake on a bang bang call. But the play was reviewed, and reviewed,and the correct call was obvious and they still blew it.

No one can legitimately argue that the outcome of the game would have been different had the correct call been made.

But why in the world do we have to put up with a system that slows the game down and still can't get it right?

The players and the fans in the stands deserve better.
Review is the "better". Without review it would be what was called on the field, period, stop, end.

I feel for the officials looking at a replay with a time limit. Sometimes you can view a play from all kind of different angles and each one may show something you need to at further. Just think how many times you are sure replay will call it one way, yet, the minute the R steps out of the booth he announces the opposite.

My question for anyone who knows does, MAC use replay during the regular season?
__________________
Ed Hickland, MBA, CCP
[email protected]
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 22, 2007, 12:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Hickland
Review is the "better". Without review it would be what was called on the field, period, stop, end.

I feel for the officials looking at a replay with a time limit. Sometimes you can view a play from all kind of different angles and each one may show something you need to at further. Just think how many times you are sure replay will call it one way, yet, the minute the R steps out of the booth he announces the opposite.

My question for anyone who knows does, MAC use replay during the regular season?
The MAC uses replay just like every other major or mid-major conference.
All of its games are televised.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NFL Rules and Pylon bisonlj Football 24 Tue Oct 17, 2006 04:43pm
End Zone Pylon Question richredskin Football 7 Tue Feb 07, 2006 08:33pm
IP and the Pylon ljudge Football 10 Wed Aug 04, 2004 03:26pm
Goal Line Pylon jrfath Football 27 Thu Oct 16, 2003 02:37pm
Runner diving for the pylon. Mike Simonds Football 8 Tue Aug 06, 2002 03:55pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:26am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1