a11 Offense - 11 potentially eligible receivers

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by TXMike

What is the process for getting rule changes in NFHS? Is there a rules committee? Who is on it?

Coaches, ADs, and others recommend changes to their state association representatives. The reps decide what they want to present to the committee. Questionaire surveys are sent out scross the country, asking for input concerning the proposals.

The committee is comprised of state association representatives. New members come on and old members rotate off each year. The rules committee presents their recommendations to the entire membsership, who then vote on those proposed changes each year.

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

Also but to not belabor the point...the amount of direct, email and phone calls upbeat and overwhelmingly positive feedback we have received far outweighs the negative ones.

Coach, all that and 99 cents will get you a cup of coffee at McDonald's.

Right now, in the 48 NFHS football states, very few people know anything about your system. While you might think you've heard from a lot of people, there are hundreds and hundreds of varsity head coaches in every state. How many have you had communication with? Several hundred?

[TXMike]

This thing will be a victim of its own success. If it does become successful on any kind of scale, it will be shut down, as it should be. Until then, it is a somewhat insignificant blip on the radar.

[KurtBryan]

Dear Officials:

In keeping with the reminder that I was asked by several Officials via online chat or phone calls to post information and opinions on these types of excellent boards, here you go:

Over the past 4 months, we have heard from approximately 500 coaches and Officials combined, with another 500 via email too. Suprising, fun, nice, etc.

And here is from another post online forum, and sometimes it is better to use the words of others, not always but sometimes. This is a quote from a San Franciso bay area coach on another thread............................................ ......see below:


"Wow. Something amazing to consider. That the game of football can't handle innovation. That it would be best of football remained the same. Would everyone continue to watch football if every game looked like the Minnesota Vikings Chicago Bears Monday Night bore-a-thon. Can anyone differentiate the style of football played by all the NFL teams other than the Patriots & Colts? When the game quits evolving it will die.

Whether we like it or not, we are in an era of innovation in the game of football. Spread option, Florida offense, Texas Tech offense, Rutgers 2 pod spread punt, 49ers A-11 formation punt vs Carolina, De La Salle's 4-1-2 spread punt in the NCS Championship Game. . . .the list goes on.

This is what football needs to keep evolving as the greatest game. All the innovation should be embraced. The guys doing all this innovation have the balls to try it, in the face of "traditionalists" who want to limit change in the game."

coachfrisco

"Regarding my last post, I am a real fan of entertaining football. I saw Piedmont play and loved their A-11 offense. They are one small school trying something different, in one small area of the country and people who have never seen it are calling for it to be banned. . .that would be a shame.

I coach in the San Francisco Bay Area and first learned about this two quarterback A-11 offense from an article in a local newspaper at the beginning of the season. I was intrigued and followed it all year. They got beat the first two games, then won 7 in a row to make the play-offs. They got a ton of positive press and every Friday night I looked forward to seeing their highlights on our local High School Sports Focus program. One of my friends refereed one of their games and he told me how cool it was that Piedmont was trying something different and that it was one of his most enjoyable games to referee this season. I had an opportunity to see one of their home games later in the season and it looked confusing to me at first (the defense looked confused too). But as the game went along you could see how they were spreading the defense into 3 zones and shifting to create mismatches. One thing that impressed me seeing it in person, was how they used a deadly draw to limit the defensive pressure. Their QB was also able to sprint out much easier than I expected, and one of the covered receivers on the right side delivered a devastating crack back to a defender chasing him. It was great to see and I hope they do not ban it. Our staff is looking forward to learning more about how the A-11 works at the NorCal coaching clinic."

coachfrisco

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

Over the past 4 months, we have heard from approximately 500 coaches and Officials combined, with another 500 via email too. Suprising, fun, nice, etc.

Oh, well, that changes everything doesn't it? 1,000 people, eh? Wow.

You just don't get it, do you? None of what you've written makes any difference. You're exploiting a rule that was written to create a balance in the game. If enough people don't like the system, it won't last.

[TXMike]

Take it to the XFL or pee wee football. This type of "innovation" would be more than welcome there. This is NOT within the spirit of the true game of football. It is easy to be "innovative" when you do not have to worry about the rules. SOme coaches thought it was "innovative" to bring their offense to the sideline on 4th and short from the 50 and in and then rush 11 guys in quickly to the line of scrimmage hoping to catch the defense in the middle of subbing or with wrong personnel so the offense could "trick" them as to their intent. The rulemakers shut this down, rightfully so. The same will happen to the A11 although there is no danger of ever seeing it in college or the pros as the rules already prevent it.

[KurtBryan]

Dear BktballRef,

You simply asked me in your earlier post above how many people had contacted us about it?

Just being honest and thank you.

Kurt

[BktBallRef]

Yes sir, and that's exactly my point.

We won't settle anything here. But good luck and Marry Christmas.

[RMR]

Coach:

Does California (you are in Calif. right?) not break football schools into classifications A, AA, AAA, AAAA, etc?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

Dear BktballRef,

You simply asked me in your earlier post above how many people had contacted us about it?

Just being honest and thank you.

Kurt

That all sounds great and wonderful but now you have highlighting a flaw in the rules that are currently on the books. I would not be surprised if individuals take your claims and change the rule. You even posted this on the NF website to highlight the issue with the rule and how this offense is so great. And I do believe that people from the NF read some of these boards for rules situations so they can get an idea of what might be going on throughout the country and make recommendations based on possible rules issues.

Let me fill you in on another little secret, the issues of steroids are local issues and nothing the NF has jurisdiction over. My state has already taken some action as it relates to steroids and might institute some kind of testing.

Peace

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My state has already taken some action as it relates to steroids and might institute some kind of testing.

NJ has been testing for 2 years.

[bossman72]

kurt,

for your offense, do you have 5 guys with "lineman type" bodies in there, or do you have 11 skill guys in there at all times?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bossman72

kurt,

for your offense, do you have 5 guys with "lineman type" bodies in there, or do you have 11 skill guys in there at all times?

So O linemen don't have any skill?

[KurtBryan]

Dear Officials:

(I had to copy most of this from my post on another forum cause I am dealing with many requests and it saves time)

* About the OL question. Yes, we use OL in the Middle Box (3) players much of the time, TE's too. And, if some OL do not play that much in the A-11, we also switched them to DL and LB, they loved it and it made us even better too.


**Over the past week, I have received some very nice emails and phone calls from your Officiating Peers nationwide who wish to remain Anonymous (for now) but are actively viewing and/or participating in this online forum and others forums on the net.

Please let me summarize their key points as they have asked me to do, fair enough? Some of this will be familair ground.

1. High School football rules do not have to be the exact same as NCAA or NFL, never have and never will. For public high schools, talent level is a crap shoot from year to year.

2. The A-11 Offense is a fair and just innovation of the game, and has already undergone diligent review prior to this season

3. Thousands of high school offensive football teams nationwide already spread out the Defense by their alignment, and then shift/cover/uncover Eligible Numbered WR/TE/RB to pressure and force the Defense to respect "potential threats downfield."

4. The A-11 does the same thing as those other offensive systems who operate as above in terms of making it hard on the Defense to determine who is or is not Eligible on a given play

5. The A-11 does not give Piedmont an unfair advantage over other teams. Piedmont's 7 - 4 overall record in 2007 is direct testimony to that. A good season but not dominating by any means.

6. The actual Officiating Crews who worked Piedmont's games in 2007 handled everything fine in various parts of California, with or without advance knowledge of the A-11. The game is ever-changing and it is up to the Officials to adapt

7. And, this point has been stressed by several coaches and Officials who have contacted us, and is the primary reason the A-11 was developed in the first place.....It gives smaller, (espescially) public schools a better chance to compete vs. the larger schools and/or private schools they must play, which makes the games more competitive and is better for high school athletics.

8. Lastly, the A-11 was well received on many different fronts which is good for the game, while understanding not everybody would be happy about it. That is a fact of life.

Thanks again.

Kurt

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

1. High School football rules do not have to be the exact same as NCAA or NFL, never have and never will. For public high schools, talent level is a crap shoot from year to year.

You are right, but often the rules do change to what happens at the other levels. That is just how it works. Welcome to the world of HS sports. When the pro and college rules try something and it works, they tend to bring it down to the HS level.

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

2. The A-11 Offense is a fair and just innovation of the game, and has already undergone diligent review prior to this season

I really do not know what that means. And that is why the fumbleruskie was outlawed too (and other plays like the "where is my ball play").

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

3. Thousands of high school offensive football teams nationwide already spread out the Defense by their alignment, and then shift/cover/uncover Eligible Numbered WR/TE/RB to pressure and force the Defense to respect "potential threats downfield."

You are right, but it often does not work very well. Most of the successful HS programs where I live mostly run the football or run an option style or wing type offense. It does not mean there are not some successful pass offenses, they just need a good QB to run it or it is a flop.

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

4. The A-11 does the same thing as those other offensive systems who operate as above in terms of making it hard on the Defense to determine who is or is not Eligible on a given play

Actually it does not. You are using one part of the rule to confuse the defense in knowing who is going to do what. Whether you like it or not that might be seen as unfair and might be soon outlawed. Keep pumping it up and it will soon be outlawed.

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

5. The A-11 does not give Piedmont an unfair advantage over other teams. Piedmont's 7 - 4 overall record in 2007 is direct testimony to that. A good season but not dominating by any means.

It might be unfair, but it is legal. And the two things do not always have to match. Once again, it might be outlawed soon if someone feels this is a potential problem.

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

6. The actual Officiating Crews who worked Piedmont's games in 2007 handled everything fine in various parts of California, with or without advance knowledge of the A-11. The game is ever-changing and it is up to the Officials to adapt

The issue is not just about the officials, it is if the rules committee feels there is an unbalance in favor of the offense.

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

7. And, this point has been stressed by several coaches and Officials who have contacted us, and is the primary reason the A-11 was developed in the first place.....It gives smaller, (especially) public schools a better chance to compete vs. the larger schools and/or private schools they must play, which makes the games more competitive and is better for high school athletics.

Just because coaches have asked you about it, does not mean it will not be made illegal.

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

8. Lastly, the A-11 was well received on many different fronts which is good for the game, while understanding not everybody would be happy about it. That is a fact of life.

Once again, this is not something you get to decide. And if you keep talking about it on this website, someone might be trying to find a way to make it illegal. You already have one coach complaining on another site about it. Just because coaches think it is great; do not be surprised if some are behind the scenes contacting their local people to outlaw this offense as it relates to the "scrimmage kick" portion of the rules.

Peace

[KurtBryan]

Dear Officials:

Thank you so much for the outstanding forum, it is very much appreciated.

I have much to do over the break and won't be posting on here for a while. I wish you all the best.

Sincerely,

Kurt Bryan