Questioning Integrity of Officials & League

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UES

I think you're missing the point Jeff. The Ref made a poor choice by not ejecting him from the game. Regardless if the penalty yards hurt the Ravens more or less, I feel, and I'm sure all of the other football officials on this site think the same way, that the ONLY option for an act of this nature is an ejection. You simply can not allow a player that does this to remain in the game. Why are you struggling with this? Isn't it obvious to you?

I am not missing anything and I am not trying to make a point. I personally do not care if he was thrown out or not. That is based on the philosophies of the NFL and their officials. I do not make a habit of trying to second guess officials I see on TV when I did not hear what was said and the league is not paying me to work the game. And you cannot use standards of amateur sports and apply them to the pro game. You never can. This is why what you see MLB Umpires do would get you fired at other levels. I personally could give a damn. They lost the game and largely did so because their team imploded at the end. Why do you care why I do not care? And if you have not noticed, I am the only person really talking to you about this. That should tell you something about the outrage. If I was not bored I might not be talking to you either.

Peace

[UES]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not missing anything and I am not trying to make a point. I personally do not care if he was thrown out or not. That is based on the philosophies of the NFL and their officials. I do not make a habit of trying to second guess officials I see on TV when I did not hear what was said and the league is not paying me to work the game. And you cannot use standards of amateur sports and apply them to the pro game. You never can. This is why what you see MLB Umpires do would get you fired at other levels. I personally could give a damn. They lost the game and largely did so because their team imploded at the end. Why do you care why I do not care? And if you have not noticed, I am the only person really talking to you about this. That should tell you something about the outrage. If I was not bored I might not be talking to you either.

Alright, Alright - I give up. I'm not trying to second guess NFL Officials either. Actually, just trying to get a better understanding for their thought process. As I said, I only work baseball (I have a hard enought time with balls/strikes & safes/outs - I can't imagine trying to call holding, illegal formation etc). However, I think we can all learn from each others' experiences and if I can pick something up from an official from a different sport and apply it to mine, then that's a good thing. Thanks for your thoughts

[HLin NC]

He was not ejected probably because under NFL rules it was not an ejectable offense. They let a lot of things go under the guise of "entertainment."

[UES]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

He was not ejected probably because under NFL rules it was not an ejectable offense. They let a lot of things go under the guise of "entertainment."

Really? Now that's interesting. I'm not sure I would classify Scott's act as entertainment, but if it's not an ejectable offense - then maybe the 30 yard penalty was the only other option. Thanks for your input

I know in college and NF ball, 2 unsportsmanlike conduct flags is an ejection. The NFL doesn't have that? Do they even have a limit? If not, then what the h*ll good is an unsportsmanlike conduct flag to start with?

If their limit was two, he would have been ejected. In football, an ejected player doesn't have to leave the confines of the field until an intermission or the end of the game. They're just not allowed back on the field. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that)

[Forksref]

Baseball certainly is different than other sports. It must be tradition that allows players to berate umpires 6" from their face. Also, it seems kinda strange that managers and coaches, who are not active players, wear the uniform. Is this a requirement? It seems that I saw footage of Connie Mack managing in a suit. I am sure glad that basketball coaches don't have to wear the uniform. (I am thinking of you, Rick Majerus and Red Auerbach.) And Tom Landry looked better in a suit and fedora

And... as was mentioned above, really no penalty except ejection for unsportsmanlike acts.

Baseball is so ingrained in me that I guess I just accept these differences.

[jaybird]

Also, it seems kinda strange that managers and coaches, who are not active players, wear the uniform. Is this a requirement?

Yes, at virtually all levels.

[HLin NC]

I went back and watched Mile Pereira's comments from the NFL Network on NFL.com. I'm paraphrasing here but the topic for this week was indeed all from the Ravens-Pats game-

Topic 1- Coaches calling time-out. HC or player is supposed to be the only one to call a TO. However, the NFL has a policy of last second request which concedes that an official can not look to see who is calling a TO at the last moment before a snap and therefore lets anyone on the sideline ask an official for a TO. He did state this rule may need "tweaking".
This theory is the exact opposite of what we are taught as Fed officials, which is when the snap is imminent, we are NOT to look away to discern who is calling a timeout or kill it.

Topic 2- Winborn Hold - In opposition to the "let'em play" theory, he said that the preferred course is to call the game at the end like you would at the beginning. The hold was still on 10 yards from the LOS and thus needed to be called.

opic 3- Gaffney Catch - He notes that the palms come off the ball but never the fingers. That in a play such as this, the referee is probably going to have to stick with whatever call was originally made by the covering official.

Topic 4- Ravens aftermath - He did not discuss the two USC's on Scott so to me, apparently, this is a non-issue. He did comment on the post-game comments by Rolle that the HL used a slur. He said that the reports he received have differed from what the Ravens players have reported and that he is in the process of gathering all the info to pass on up to whoever is going to make decisions on the issue. He did state that the officials are instructed that they need to be professional and try to walk away from these things but at some point IT IS DIFFICULT.

As for ejections, I believe the NCAA allows for the ejection of players but not coaches. Our college friends can correct me but I thought I was told or read somewhere that a college coach can dog-cuss you all day long and its only going to get him USC's.
According to the NFL's on line digest of rules, USC can be an ejection if flagrant. The only automatic ejections are for swinging a helmet as a weapon and striking/intentional shoving of a game official. http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/penaltysummaries

While Scott's act was certainly flagrant, I guess the official deemed 30 yards of penalties sufficient AND considering the Pats scored and Scott was probably not coming back on the field anyway.

[Warrenkicker]

Everyone keeps talking about the holding near the end zone on 4th down. I think it was the right call. But even if you don't like that call there was pass interference after it by 26 I think. He played through the receiver just before the ball got there. So if you don't like the hold call there still was a foul on the play.

As for why Scott was not ejected and why the NFL doesn't have automatic ejection criteria, I think it is because of the limited team size. The NFL ejects players for fighting but for just talking back there was no harm to the other team. Fighting means you get to sit and get a fine. Talking back may get you a fine but doesn't also cost your team one of its limited number of players. To have a starter ejected may affect the outcome of the game. The NFL is more than happy to deal with players Tuesday morning.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Topic 1- Coaches calling time-out. HC or player is supposed to be the only one to call a TO. However, the NFL has a policy of last second request which concedes that an official can not look to see who is calling a TO at the last moment before a snap and therefore lets anyone on the sideline ask an official for a TO. He did state this rule may need "tweaking".
This theory is the exact opposite of what we are taught as Fed officials, which is when the snap is imminent, we are NOT to look away to discern who is calling a timeout or kill it.

Situational officiating here, too - by the end of the game, if you're a wing, you (hopefully) can recognize the head coach's voice, but I will usually say "Coach, I'm going to be listening for you and you only if you want to call a time out here (or soon)." Knowing the game and knowing when a time out is likely or can possibly come can help you prepare for this. Of course, we don't have to deal with trying to pick out one voice with 70,000 other people screaming at the same time - but when I'm a wing, I'll often try to make sure I know where the head coach is (often he'll be near me anyway depending on where the LOS is) so that if I hear a time out call coming from the other direction, I know it wasn't him who called it and I'll ignore it.

He did state that the officials are instructed that they need to be professional and try to walk away from these things but at some point IT IS DIFFICULT.

Boy, howdy.

One reason I loved loved LOVED moving to back judge this past season.

Originally Posted by Warrenkicker

As for why Scott was not ejected and why the NFL doesn't have automatic ejection criteria, I think it is because of the limited team size. The NFL ejects players for fighting but for just talking back there was no harm to the other team. Fighting means you get to sit and get a fine. Talking back may get you a fine but doesn't also cost your team one of its limited number of players.

"Limited number of players?" Some NFL teams have or have had guys whose only job is to kick off. To paraphrase Robin Williams, that's God's way of letting you know you have too many roster spots.

(Grumpy old man) Anybody remember "40 for 60?" with Joe Kapp and company?(/Grumpy old man)

My, how times have changed.