Questioning Integrity of Officials & League

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UES

In reply, I realize that the comments regarding the integrity of the officials and the league were made AFTER the game. However, since those comments appeared in every major newspaper, TV and radio stations across the US on Tuesday, I don't understand what the NFL is "investigating". Allowing players to openly question the integrity of officials as well as the ethics of the league undermines the backbone of the sport and that has to be dealt with SWIFTLY and SEVERLY

I think if you wait to see what the fines or suspensions might be, you might feel differently. You are just talking about 2 days from the incident. It is not like they waited a week and nothing is being done. My understanding the league will wait until sometime tomorrow to take whatever action will be taken. For all you know Scott might be suspended a couple of games. You do not know.

Originally Posted by UES

As for Baltimore's Scott throwing the flag into the stands, that SHOULD have been an AUTOMATIC, IMMEDIATE ejection and no one will convince me otherise. And I know he was not ejected because he remained on the sideline and never left the field. I don't care how many yards he was penalized, he has got to go for that... PERIOD! Moreover, because Mr White Hat did not take care of business, it will only be a matter of time before some other idiot does the same thing and then what... he has screwed his fellow referees because he set a bad precident by allowing a player to do that and still remain in the game. That looks bad - REAL BAD now doesn't it?

Once again I think officials know the league will take action. Once again, I do not see this as a big deal. And I have never seen MLB make a big deal about an ejection (and they get in the faces of umpires all the time) unless the player or coach does not leave in a timely manner. And even when they throw stuff they do not lose games. I have seen umpires contacted and it takes time for them to suspend the person for 1 game.

Originally Posted by UES

I understand that the different sports handle on field actions differently - mainly because football has USC penalties and basketball has technical fouls they can hand out to diffuse situations. However, when a player crosses the line as bad as Scott did, an ejection has to be given or else an official will lose credibility and appear as "soft". Now I'm not saying you have to be a red a$$, but come on, what he did was totally unacceptable and ONLY punishable, IMO, with automatic EJECTION.

This is the difference between baseball umpires and other sports. Baseball umpires are worried about being called soft. I can tell you that as a basketball official the last thing I am ever worried about is being called soft. As a basketball official trying to be a “tough guy” can go against you rather fast. And as a football official it does not even cross my mind. If you look at NFL particularly they fine the hell out of their players for all kinds of stuff. And I do not think the officials have to worry about credibility when players and coaches are fined big time for what they say in the media and how they act on or off the field. Michael Vick was not even convicted of anything and he was already suspended. I have never heard of a player in baseball even suspended for a DUI let alone anything they do on the field towards and umpire. So relax. I think the reason you do not see anyone talking about this, is because it is not that big of a deal.

Peace

[UES]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Once again I think officials know the league will take action. Once again, I do not see this as a big deal...

The Big Deal is that Scott was not IMMEDIATELY ejected from the game for what he did. Do you think picking up an officials flag and throwing it in the stands should NOT result in an ejection from the current game? Come on Rut

Originally Posted by JRutledge

As a basketball official trying to be a “tough guy” can go against you rather fast.

Ask Joey Crawford about that -

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the difference between baseball umpires and other sports. Baseball umpires are worried about being called soft. I can tell you that as a basketball official the last thing I am ever worried about is being called soft. And as a football official it does not even cross my mind.

I think you bring up a good point here. Personally, I've always admired how basketball referees and football sideline officials seems so composed when players and coaches are screaming in the ear. Even when they throw a flag or give a T, they always seem to be under control.

I think MLB umpires are moving in that direction. Those days of the Earl Weaver/Billy Martin animated arguments are soon coming to in end because umpires are now just walking away. I think discussions on the baseball field will still get heated from time to time, but umpires will now do more things to difuse the situation rather than escalate the arguments.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Michael Vick was not even convicted of anything and he was already suspended. I have never heard of a player in baseball even suspended for a DUI let alone anything they do on the field towards and umpire. So relax. I think the reason you do not see anyone talking about this, is because it is not that big of a deal.

I'm not really concerned with all of the off the field troubles that athletes get into. However, I do feel it's a big deal when they go to the media and say that the Refs are purposely cheating and the NFL is "fixing" games. Considering the amount of money that is wagered on games and the whole Donahay betting scandal - the last thing football needs is players coming up conspiracy theories and telling evey media outlet how crooked the officials are. Just my opinion - I'll take a chill pill now

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UES

The Big Deal is that Scott was not IMMEDIATELY ejected from the game for what he did. Do you think picking up an officials flag and throwing it in the stands should NOT result in an ejection from the current game? Come on Rut

OK. The NFL is different than other levels I work. When I work the NFL I will worry about what should have been done.

Originally Posted by UES

Ask Joey Crawford about that -

If you have not noticed, Joey Crawford was suspended last year from the NBA for being overly aggressive (right or wrong). And you do not see what goes on in the NBA apply to other levels. You do not see big time D1 Officials challenging players and coaches. They do not need to. And showing your a tough guy does not work very well.

Originally Posted by UES

I think you bring up a good point here. Personally, I've always admired how basketball referees and football sideline officials seems so composed when players and coaches are screaming in the ear. Even when they throw a flag or give a T, they always seem to be under control.

I think MLB umpires are moving in that direction. Those days of the Earl Weaver/Billy Martin animated arguments are soon coming to in end because umpires are now just walking away. I think discussions on the baseball field will still get heated from time to time, but umpires will now do more things to difuse the situation rather than escalate the arguments.

That behavior is expected.

I would agree the pushing and shoving matches are not common. But you still see umpires willing to get in the face of the players when and ejection takes place. Why not just walk away and let the coach or player make a complete azz of themselves?

Originally Posted by UES

I'm not really concerned with all of the off the field troubles that athletes get into. However, I do feel it's a big deal when they go to the media and say that the Refs are purposely cheating and the NFL is "fixing" games. Considering the amount of money that is wagered on games and the whole Donahay betting scandal - the last thing football needs is players coming up conspiracy theories and telling evey media outlet how crooked the officials are. Just my opinion - I'll take a chill pill now

OK that is fine, but the NFL has and will punish players for that. Neither of us knows the penalties that are coming or not coming. And if you have not noticed, players in all sports come up with theories of conspiracies and think the officials are out to get them. All you have to do is get on a chat room to figure that out.

Peace

[UES]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

OK. The NFL is different than other levels I work. When I work the NFL I will worry about what should have been done.

I'm not sure I follow you on this.... Do you think he should have been ejected or was a 30 yard penalty acessed on the kick off punishment enough? If you want to see the video, I'm sure you can google it but I would hope that you realize that an ejection is the only way to go

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you have not noticed, Joey Crawford was suspended last year from the NBA for being overly aggressive (right or wrong). And you do not see what goes on in the NBA apply to other levels. You do not see big time D1 Officials challenging players and coaches. They do not need to. And showing your a tough guy does not work very well.

My comment about Joey Crawford was sarcastic. I totally agree with you about being overly agressive. Crawford's always been a hot head and I think he went overboard and Stern gave him a little "reality check". I'm glad he got a second chance because he's a good official and I bet he learned a lot from that situation. IMO, NBA players show the most disrespect towards officials than players in the NFL, MLB or NHL.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... But you still see umpires willing to get in the face of the players when and ejection takes place. Why not just walk away and let the coach or player make a complete azz of themselves?

I agree that they should eject if necessary, then walk away. I think MLB has put an emphasis on getting away from the head bobbing arguments and moving towards more lower key discussions. The trend will continue to go in this direction: a classic example of this was the Lou Pinella - Mark Wegner confrontation this past season. For a baseball argument of that magnitude, I thought Wegner handled himself well and did not let Lou's shinanigans get the best of him.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UES

I'm not sure I follow you on this.... Do you think he should have been ejected or was a 30 yard penalty acessed on the kick off punishment enough? If you want to see the video, I'm sure you can google it but I would hope that you realize that an ejection is the only way to go

I think the Ravens could have used those 30 yards considering that they lost the game by a couple of yards away from the EZ. You tell me if that hurt them enough?

Peace

[UES]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think the Ravens could have used those 30 yards considering that they lost the game by a couple of yards away from the EZ. You tell me if that hurt them enough?

Peace

I think you're missing the point Jeff. The Ref made a poor choice by not ejecting him from the game. Regardless if the penalty yards hurt the Ravens more or less, I feel, and I'm sure all of the other football officials on this site think the same way, that the ONLY option for an act of this nature is an ejection. You simply can not allow a player that does this to remain in the game. Why are you struggling with this? Isn't it obvious to you?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UES

I think you're missing the point Jeff. The Ref made a poor choice by not ejecting him from the game. Regardless if the penalty yards hurt the Ravens more or less, I feel, and I'm sure all of the other football officials on this site think the same way, that the ONLY option for an act of this nature is an ejection. You simply can not allow a player that does this to remain in the game. Why are you struggling with this? Isn't it obvious to you?

I am not missing anything and I am not trying to make a point. I personally do not care if he was thrown out or not. That is based on the philosophies of the NFL and their officials. I do not make a habit of trying to second guess officials I see on TV when I did not hear what was said and the league is not paying me to work the game. And you cannot use standards of amateur sports and apply them to the pro game. You never can. This is why what you see MLB Umpires do would get you fired at other levels. I personally could give a damn. They lost the game and largely did so because their team imploded at the end. Why do you care why I do not care? And if you have not noticed, I am the only person really talking to you about this. That should tell you something about the outrage. If I was not bored I might not be talking to you either.

Peace