Playoffs

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Shoot, I think it takes a year just to figure out where to stand and how to blow your whistle. Second year you might start to get a clue about all the rules and mechanics. Third year you should be starting to get a good sense of judgment and deportment.

Years 1 and 2 of your system can be completly skipped if one goes through the proper training. Year 3 can also be skipped, either by the proper training or by using experience gained in officiating other sports.

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

I still just don't think you can microwave your officiating career.

Look at baseball. The first baseball game that one ever officiated could be in a short season league at the affiliated Minor League level. That is possible because those officials go through the proper training beforehand. Saying that someone needs to work X number of years to reach Y skill level is not correct.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Years 1 and 2 of your system can be completly skipped if one goes through the proper training. Year 3 can also be skipped, either by the proper training or by using experience gained in officiating other sports.

Wow. Okay.

Am I the only one who's not completely sold on that?

Look at baseball. The first baseball game that one ever officiated could be in a short season league at the affiliated Minor League level. That is possible because those officials go through the proper training beforehand.

Is that true? Can someone really work in the NY-P League having never officiated baseball before?

Saying that someone needs to work X number of years to reach Y skill level is not correct.

Usually. There are exceptions to every rule.

I still think you're a mutant if you can do this and do it well right off the bat, no matter how much "training" you have. But I may be the only one who feels that way.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Is that true? Can someone really work in the NY-P League having never officiated baseball before?

It is true someone can work Minor League ball and not ever work a game. The reason is because there are pro schools that give umpires an ennormous amount of training. And there are people that go to these pro-schools and have never worked a single game of baseball before that time. In many cases people have been picked up with very limited experience before they attended pro-school.

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Usually. There are exceptions to every rule.

I still think you're a mutant if you can do this and do it well right off the bat, no matter how much "training" you have. But I may be the only one who feels that way.

The point that I am making is that putting arbitrary numbers is not a very good judge of when someone is competent. Even after 5 years there are officials that do not get it and seem to never will. My crew chief is a former Division 1 Nose Tackle, he is a great umpire because he gets what is going on at that point of the game and how to call line blocking almost like no other official I know. His football experience makes him a lot better than someone that has been working 20 more years than my crew chief. Move him to another position and his level of ability does change and even his understanding of the other aspects of the game. I know I had to work really hard to become a decent back judge in the past few years because I was much better and more comfortable as a wing and Referee where I spent more time.

Now there might be rules that allow for eligibility for post season games and that is fine with me. But to say what someone can or cannot do only bases on how many years they have been working is a very good gauge. And I know training can speed up that process and even the number of games you work. You cannot judge that by how many years someone has worked.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

Is it physically possible to be up for this 85 times a fall if you do other things? Are you getting 85 games worth of benefit out of your 85 games? Or is it just slogging through them?

I don't think this is a problem for guys that want to do it. I personally don't, but I know guys that do want to work every single night and then are pissed when the season is over. I don't think I slogged in any of my 45 or so games this year or any of my 60 games last year. Adding 20-25 more wouldn't have been a problem for me if I had the kind of job that would allow it and wanted to do it. Yeah, in late August or early September, the 4th quarter of a second JV game can be rough since its humid as hell, my legs aren't quite in midseason form, and I'm so hungry, I start wondering if there are real beans in my bean bag. But I get through OK, and the younger guys do so without much thought.

My point was that experience, in football, is all about snaps. I've averaged 50 games a year for the three years I've worked. Is that 3 years the same as a guy who's done 30 games per year?

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

....
My point was that experience, in football, is all about snaps. I've averaged 50 games a year for the three years I've worked. Is that 3 years the same as a guy who's done 30 games per year?

Actually it is not that simple. Yes it may be helpful to be on the field more but it is possible for a guy to do what is called "Work 1 game 50 times" instead of "50 games:. The point being, if you are doing the same thing over and over but are doing it wrong, then how much experience do you really have. Not saying you fit that category, just saying it is not a simple matter of "I have worked 50 games a year". I know some guys in a Chapter I am familiar with who have been at this for over 20 years and who are in it for the money. They work as many nights a week as they can and do youth league stuff on the weekends. They are doing over 100 games a season. But, they are some of the worst officials possible.

If you are doing games without "adult supervision" (more experienced and competent officials) working with you, I really question the value of the experience. (And yes, if you are working with the guys I mentioned at the start of this post, I definitely question the value of THOSE games)

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Wow. Okay.

Am I the only one who's not completely sold on that?

You really think it takes one year to learn where to stand? Assuming that the official only works one position there are only maybe 5 places he needs to learn. There are 2 positions for free kicks, one normal position and possibly another position if an onside kick is expected. Then there are scrimmage downs. One position for punts, one for field goals, and another for normal scrimmage downs. Does it really take a year to learn that?

Year two is learning the rules and mechanics. Anyone can learn the rules. It doesn't take two years to learn the rules. With proper studying it can take way less. People get out of it what they put into it, some people are diligent studiers of the rules. Some people are very good at remembering what they read. Some people participate in internet discussion forums. They are many factors which go into learning the rules therefore one cannot say that it takes X number of years to learn the rules.

The same goes for mechanics. Mechanics are learned by studying them and the practicing them on the field. This can be done outside of games.

Year three was judgment and deportment. This also can be taught. Learning what/how/when to look for greatly increases judgment. Not too long ago RichMSN posted that he had brought a first year official on to his crew and he work varsity games right from the start. That guy was a good official in other sports and it was easy to transfer over to football.

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Is that true? Can someone really work in the NY-P League having never officiated baseball before?

Yes, that is correct. You could call up your nephew who has never officiated anything in his life and ask him if he wanted to work Minor League Baseball. If he said yes you could send him to school and he could be out on the field working in a short season A and/or rookie league this Summer. They go though long and intense training which teaches them everything they need to know to start officiating professional baseball. If a first year baseball official can work MiLB, why would anyone think that a third year football official could never be good enough to work a HS playoff game?