How does your Assoc handle this?

[Ray_from_Mi]

Have a question and am interested in how other Assoc. handle this, if at all.
Two of our crew members were asked by another crew to join up with them for next season. Does your Assoc. allow the solicitation of other crews to acquire members that are already on a crew? or is there no concern about what crew members do? My thought is if the crew member wants to move to another crew, then inform the crew chief and do so, however, if that crew member is solicitied by another crew, (which happens to have the FB assignor on that crew) it seems to me that the 'playing field' may not be 'level'. In this case, the end result is still 1 full crew and the other looking for 2 replacements. How do other Assoc. handle this or is it not a problem? and what are your thoughts on providing some guidelines, if any...
We certainly have plenty of time to get our replacements, but it will probably hurt our post-season assignments and we will go thru the 'getting to know you' process again.

[refbuz]

Our commissioners put all of out crews together. The WH may have some input, regarding people who they'd like on their crew, but for the most part the comissioner creates the crew, not the crew chief.

[Scooby]

In my area, Michigan, the associations have no say over who's in what crew. If a crew needs another member they are free to go to an existing crew or developed a rookie to fill that position.

[Texas Aggie]

In our chapter, we pretty much form our own crews, under some basic guidelines. Crews are generally formed for 2 years, but guys do move from one crew to another in between both years for various reasons. As far as soliciting, we do have an ethics committee that might look at it if it is potentially serious, but generally, if one doesn't want to work on a crew, he has the freedom to leave. By then, the feeling is generally mutual between him and the Referee.

There are hard feelings and long held grudges. I think if there's a personality issue, that's one thing. Guys seem to know when its better to part ways because the crew isn't functioning at its highest level. If guys leave one crew for another in hopes of better games ONLY, then that creates problems.

[JRutledge]

This is not an issue for any association that I am a member of. Crew make-ups are based on the officials that form them and only the officials that form them. I work for whom ever I want and when ever I want to. The only thing that an association has to do with it (and I am talking state association only) is the contracts that are signed. If you are scheduled to work a game, chances are you are obligated to work those games. Most of the time the crew chief is responsible for this and that is it. It is completely acceptable to offer a position to anyone that is an official and it is up to that official to accept or deny the offer.

As an example a few years ago I was offered a position on a crew of someone I knew very well. I was asked to join before this particular season. I said no that I would not work games with them during the regular season, but I would allow them to list me on their playoff roster because on my current crew (at the time) I was the only person getting playoff games on a regular basis. After the year was over I chose to move to this new crew that asked me to join before that season. The decision was mine and mine alone and no association could say anything to me about it. I was the person that had to work the individuals and I wanted to work with people that better fit where I wanted to go in the playoffs and that fit my style of officiating. I have been with this crew for 2 full regular seasons and 3 playoff runs. We even had 2 crew members that left the crew because of personal conflicts that were going on long before I joined. We worked the Semi-Finals last year and this year with two new people. All the state would do is see if we were qualified for post season games, other than that they have no say it who we decide to work with.

Peace

[MadCityRef]

With the association or commissioner assigning the crews, it gets into an employee-employer relationship. The official is told with whom and when to work.
We are independent contractors and cannot be under such restrictions without the Assn. or Commr. being liable for taxes, workers comp., etc. Someday your state dept. of revenue will come calling about it, as the state of Oregon is now.

My former Oregon assn. assigned individuals to each game. We'd work with different people each week. I liked this system because you'd learn something new from different experience levels and it created a lot of camaraderie.
In Illinois, we form our own crew and accept assignments as we wish. Last season we worked for six different assignors, but we are isolated because we don't have a chance to see other officials and such. Nor do the majority belong to an association.

Dump those losers, Rut, and come work with me!! I'll even buy a "Les Miles, More Wins!" t-shirt.

[OverAndBack]

I thought I would miss the varied experience of being with different folks every week when I joined a crew for this season (in Illinois). I found that I enjoyed being a part of a crew, too.

But I was free to join or not join any crew. If someone wants to "poach" you from one crew to another, well, I guess they have the right to try and you have the right to do whatever you feel you need to do.

My feeling is that if you can't build a relationship with the other guys on your crew to the point where you just want to jump off, then you weren't an optimal crew in the first place. Nothing wrong with that, I guess - some groups of five people are going to get along better than others.

If you get on a good crew, it makes working games more enjoyable. If you don't enjoy working with someone, chances are they don't enjoy working with you, in which case, on you get. Find a situation that works for you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

Dump those losers, Rut, and come work with me!! I'll even buy a "Les Miles, More Wins!" t-shirt.

I would at least love the T-shirt.

Peace

[Forksref]

We have a good relationship among the white hats here. No one goes out and solicits anyone else from another crew. What usually happens is that we are so short of officials that we have to go out and hustle to get guys to fill our crews but we go after guys who have not been on a crew yet.

Three years ago my crew (I was the BJ) had the WH and U retire and they never told anyone and we had two guys move away and I was only aware of one of them leaving. I had to go out and get 4 guys to make up a crew and I returned to the WH position which I had done years ago with another crew in another part of the state. With a lot of training and encouragement, our crew ended the season ranked number 1 by the area coaches and we got a playoff game. Every year we have to fill spots and it's always kind of "iffy" when you put new guys on the field. This year I took a rookie under my wing and he was with us at games for pre-game, half-time, etc and walked the sideline during the game. He filled in a couple times later in the season and did a fine job. We are adding a crew next year and my LJ will go help fill the new crew and my sub (rookie) from this year will fill his spot. I see this mentoring as a major asset to our association, so that rookies do not have to go it alone. There's a lot to learn and being part of a crew, even though you are not on the field is an excellent way to learn the game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by refbuz

Our commissioners put all of out crews together. The WH may have some input, regarding people who they'd like on their crew, but for the most part the comissioner creates the crew, not the crew chief.

I would hate that. Where I am, I can hire and fire members of my crew pretty much whenever I want or need to. In reality, it's a crew of 3 core guys (with 2 recent additions) and we make all decisions together. In four years I've asked 2 guys to find other crews and 1 guy moved away from the area. The crew will return intact next season and we ended with a nice first round game this year. Hopefully, next year, we'll do even better.

[refbuz]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I would hate that. Where I am, I can hire and fire members of my crew pretty much whenever I want or need to. In reality, it's a crew of 3 core guys (with 2 recent additions) and we make all decisions together. In four years I've asked 2 guys to find other crews and 1 guy moved away from the area. The crew will return intact next season and we ended with a nice first round game this year. Hopefully, next year, we'll do even better.

It's actually not that bad. Once your on a crew, your on that crew for the year, unless you get hurt or do so something so monumentally stupid that your fired during the year.

I work 3 different leagues in the Philadelphia area. Each league has a different assignor that I work for and its own set of officials that work the league. The assignor will put crews together from the pool of officials that work their league. Typically, if the crew doesn't screw up anything too bad the assignor will keep the crew together the following year.

One of my assignors will put out a crew list, but rarely uses that crew together because of availaility issues. The officials that work his league, also work other leagues in the area. He works around this by assigning his games last. So the "crew" might not work together, but he will use the "crew" work the league. As crazy as that sounds, I don't mind this set up, because a majority of the officials from this organization are just better officials and I don't mind working with any of them...

[Suudy]

And for our state, each association decides how to form crews. The association I was previouly in, the executive board of our association put together the crews at the start of every season. Each year the crews were mixed. In my new association, there are no crews. Each and every week our assigning secretary puts together the crews.

I preferred the former. I think it allows the crew to gel better. Constantly shifting crews makes for irregular expectations. If, for example, you know how your U or BJ works, it makes things smoother. Shifting gears each week makes it tough. However, it does help come the playoffs, because it helps you mesh better when you get a mix of officials in the post-season.

[Rich]

And I like our system here -- if I want to be a crew chief, I form a crew and try to fill a schedule.

I started with a rookie in 2003, 2004, and 2006 (the 2004 and 2006 rookies replaced other officials). Now these three rookies are on my Friday night crew and I've been able to mentor them and our crew is playoff eligible.

I chose these guys cause they are my friends -- I recruited two of them to the sport as they are outstanding officials in other sports and they were varsity officials (with the occasional mistake, nothing that hurt either team, though) from day 1. Not that I didn't worry from time to time.

It's our crew now. I still fill our schedule and choose to accept/decline games and fill our JV/Freshman schedules. I'd hate for a committee or an association to tell me who I surround myself with or whether I'll be a WH or working some other position. None of my guys WANT to be a white hat, although I've been mentoring an emergency WH, just like they do in the NFL.

So I guess we all have different systems and there are plusses and minuses in all of them. I like mine, though, which is good since I have no intention of moving anytime soon.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

And I like our system here -- if I want to be a crew chief, I form a crew and try to fill a schedule.

I started with a rookie in 2003, 2004, and 2006 (the 2004 and 2006 rookies replaced other officials). Now these three rookies are on my Friday night crew and I've been able to mentor them and our crew is playoff eligible.

I chose these guys cause they are my friends -- I recruited two of them to the sport as they are outstanding officials in other sports and they were varsity officials (with the occasional mistake, nothing that hurt either team, though) from day 1. Not that I didn't worry from time to time.

It's our crew now. I still fill our schedule and choose to accept/decline games and fill our JV/Freshman schedules. I'd hate for a committee or an association to tell me who I surround myself with or whether I'll be a WH or working some other position. None of my guys WANT to be a white hat, although I've been mentoring an emergency WH, just like they do in the NFL.

So I guess we all have different systems and there are plusses and minuses in all of them. I like mine, though, which is good since I have no intention of moving anytime soon.

I completely agree with you. If I wanted to leave the crew I am on now and find 4 other officials to form a crew, no one has any say in that. All that might happen is that we would likely not get the best of the best games based on everyone's experience, playoff history or even availability, but no one is going to tell us anywhere we cannot do it. And in many cases crews have 6-8 officials on a crew that might rotate from time to time or that are being mentored to move to other levels and join other crews. I think for HS ball this is the most appropriate and unless someone is going to pay some pensions and health benefits, I do not think any association (in theory) should be telling people who they can work for when they spend a Friday or Saturday night or afternoon away from their families. Football crews are often very close groups of people that form lifetime friendships and sometimes become enemies (kind of a strong word) based on how they handle these decisions. I certainly would not want to be working games with people I do not like or respect because someone said it is required.

Peace

[Ref inSoCA]

We change crews every year (San Diego County Football Officials Association. San Diego Section of the Calif Interscolastic Federation [CIF]).

Every June the Crew Chiefs (30, appointed by the Board) meet in a large room and draft their crews for that year. It is a rare occasion for an official to be removed from a crew. It has to be with the Assignment Secretary's and Board's approval. It's pretty much "you-drafted-him, you-live-with-him".

All High School games are assigned by one Assignment Secretary (we service 88 High Schools) so no one is out begging for games and the officials can be truly independent and disinterested.