A-11 Offense ??

[KurtBryan]

As coaches, we are always looking for ways to help our team win, but Way to change the subject to $$$ Tom,. I play every kid in every game on JV & V regardless of the score or outcome, always have and always will because the KIDS come first.

And: we are certainly not into coaching for the money...but we love the experience of learning, coaching and sharing innovative ideas with our peers and officials.

Let's look at reality shall we?...I coach for Free, donate my coaching stipend back into the football program and love to help my players become better people each day on and off the field.

So please keep the $$$ out of it --- we will be lucky to break even and recoup our cost for all of the FREE DVD's and tapes we have sent out...OK?

It's OK to have a website and when those companies offered to do a book and DVD series, we said yes...

And when A-11 Offense info started showing up on officiating web sites by Refs, I was asked to contribute and correct wrong info being spread by interested refs.

In terms of making the rules committee look bad, nothing could be further from the truth.

But again the question was about innovation in football...thank you.

As a reminder...

"After being involved in a game(s) featuring the A-11 Offense, why did the overwhelming majority of opposing coaches and officials view it as a positive innovation and healthy for the game?"

KB

[Mike L]

Jeeze, I thought this subject had already received it's well deserved burial.
Yep, it's legal. Yep, I believe it soon won't be. Yep, I continue to doubt officials have gotten as giddy about it as the coach represents. When was the last time any of us got all enthusiastic about the crazy things teams try? And yep, I believe if the coach doesn't want people to think he's marketing this idea, then he should not be posting his web site advertising it with a variety of products for SALE!

[goldenwings68]

Rule 7, section 2, Art 5b--states "...A player in the game under the exception MUST assume an INITIAL POSITION on his LOS between the ends and remain an ineligible forward-pass receiver during the down unless the pass is touched by B.

To me, an initial position would be after breaking the huddle, the players in under the exception, would immediately go take a position on the line of scrimmage---but according to the way this system works, after breaking the huddle, one player goes over the ball (the center, and the rest spread out and set behind the LOS and then shift into whatever play or formation they will use for the concerned play-----

To me, their initial position, was not on their LOS, but behind the LOS--thus, breaking the exception rule---

Comments, observations, agreements, disagreements???????!!!!!??

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by goldenwings68

...To me, their initial position, was not on their LOS, but behind the LOS--thus, breaking the exception rule---

Comments, observations, agreements, disagreements???????!!!!!??

REPLY: I don't agree. If a player is not on the line between the ends, he's not operating under the exception. Nothing wrong with that. However, if he subsequently moves to a position on the line between the ends--now he's operating under the exception. I think the wording could use some tweaking, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with an eligible number somewhere in the backfield shifting to a position on the line between the ends and becoming an exception. It's only when he gets to this position that he is "a player in the game under the exception." Think about it...if the rule was intended as you suggest, the player could never be in the huddle.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by goldenwings68

Rule 7, section 2, Art 5b--states "...A player in the game under the exception MUST assume an INITIAL POSITION on his LOS between the ends and remain an ineligible forward-pass receiver during the down unless the pass is touched by B.

To me, an initial position would be after breaking the huddle, the players in under the exception, would immediately go take a position on the line of scrimmage---but according to the way this system works, after breaking the huddle, one player goes over the ball (the center, and the rest spread out and set behind the LOS and then shift into whatever play or formation they will use for the concerned play-----

To me, their initial position, was not on their LOS, but behind the LOS--thus, breaking the exception rule---

Comments, observations, agreements, disagreements???????!!!!!??

I think it's pretty simple: that after the ball is RFP, any player who assumes a set position legally on the line is in an "initial" position on the line, and remains so until s/he shifts or becomes legally a back in motion or until the ball becomes live or no longer RFP. The player may or may not remain a lineman while or after moving to a position other than the "initial" one. When the ball is put in play the position each player came from may or may not have been hir "initial" one.

So let's say they don't huddle. When the ref whistles RFP, some of them are milling around, and some of them are set. We don't know who of A is legally on their line (meaning that none of them are) until the snapper assumes a position with the ball. They don't all have to be positioned at the same time, so any time one sets "on the line", they get a mental tag. One of the things to note is whether they're on either end of the line, regardless of whether there are 7 yet on the line. The snapper might be for a time the only player on the line, and the snapper is then on the end of the line. Which end? Both! Obviously you need to have at least 3 simultaneously on the line for any of them to be "between the ends".

Robert

[goldenwings68]

Bob--I do not count the initial position to be the huddle----once breaking the huddle or coming in after the huddle, the rule states that anyone in under the exception must assume a position on his LOS between the ends---

This formation does not have any players from 50-79 in on the field and they are there for every play--so where is the exception?

I do not know if they use a huddle, but the fact remains they all line up, except a center, in the backfield off the LOS and then X-number of them move.shift onto the LOS between two ends.

To me, the exception rule was not created for this purpose and everyone here knows that, plain and simple----the exception rule was brought into play to give the punting team a chance to put in some faster, more agile players into the game to go down under a punt, not create an offense where there are only players wearing eligible numbers none of them are really there to assume a position under the exception.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by goldenwings68

Bob--I do not count the initial position to be the huddle----once breaking the huddle or coming in after the huddle, the rule states that anyone in under the exception must assume a position on his LOS between the ends---

You don't have to count the huddle, because the rule only takes effect for a player once that player assumes a position on the line. That's "an initial position on his line". The player could hop all over the place before that, setting here & there, but only if and when that player sets on the line does he get that mental tag.

Robert

[goldenwings68]

The exception rule states that when a player comes in the game as a replacement for a teammate who wears 50-79, under the rule, he then becomes a replacement for that player and his position and therefore, he is an interior linesman and cannot be hopping all over the field waiting to decide where he will light---as this A-11 offense does.

They have 11 players with eligible numbers in on every play----where is the exception? And which player is in for which player?

Naw--the offense is in my humble opinion, illegal--------