Illegal Kick NFL, NCAA and Fed

[Suudy]

It has always been my understanding that no foul causes the ball to become dead. This would include kicks. I work NFHS, and this makes sense based upon 2-24-9: "When the ball is loose following an illegal kick, it is treated as a fumble."

What's the case for NCAA and NFL? I saw two quotes from the NCAA rulebook:

6-3-10-b: "A return kick is an illegal kick and a live-ball foul that causes the ball to become dead."
6-3-10-c: "A scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone is a live-ball foul that causes the ball to become dead."

Are these cases where a foul causes the ball to become dead? Is this only if they become loose? Is it dead at the spot of the illegal kick?

[JasonTX]

Yes, in both cases the ball becomes dead immediately when it is kicked. The penalty is 5 yards from the previous spot and loss of down in situation 2.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Suudy

It has always been my understanding that no foul causes the ball to become dead. This would include kicks.

CANADIAN PESPECTIVE:

This is a true statement!

[DJ_NV]

The football fundamental "No live ball foul causes the ball to become dead" only applies to NF, not NCAA.

[Suudy]

Thanks for the info.

Are there other fouls, besides these two illegal kicks, that cause a live ball to become dead?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

CANADIAN PESPECTIVE:

This is a true statement!

Interesting you should say that, because for a long time, about a century after the principle had been adopted in American football of fouls not killing the play, the Canadian am & pro rules books still had an obscure provision (tucked away in the section on officials' responsibilities) that allowed the referee to kill a ball in play if no benefit could accrue to the non-offending side by continuing, as is the case in rugby. Unfortunately the rule as written literally would give an immense advantage to the defence (as they spell it) on fouls by the offence, so it was ignored. FAIK it may still be in one or another of the contemporary Canadian rule books.

What that rule would be good for is situations where the team in possession of the ball, were they to realize the situation, would be best advised to kill it themselves, because a penalty is sure to be accepted or offset.

Interesting that an illegal kick kills the play in NCAA, but not an illegal forward pass. Seems the same principles would apply to both.

Robert