Int. grounding from shotgun snap

[buckrog64]

In a freshman game tonight, A was lined up in shotgun. The QB took the snap from about 3 or 4 yards from the center and threw the ball forward into the ground. Refs let it go. Two plays later, did the same thing.

Did I miss the meeting where this rule was changed? I thought in order to spike the ball, it had to be a hand to hand snap.

[MRH]

You are correct, in order to legally spike the ball the snap must be hand to hand.

This should have been called an illegal forward pass. 5 yard penalty from the spot of the foul and loss of down.

[LeRoy]

Rule 2 - D Directly from the rule book

It is legal to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving a direct hand-to-hand snap.

[Wesels]

How can you call an illegal forward pass if the QB is in a shot gun formation and presumably there is a RB with in 2 yards of him throwing the ball down to the ground? If I'm wearing the WH and this happens in a game I'm going to rule for an incomplete pass set the ball up and blow it ready for play

[BoBo]

Originally Posted by Wesels

How can you call an illegal forward pass if the QB is in a shot gun formation and presumably there is a RB with in 2 yards of him throwing the ball down to the ground? If I'm wearing the WH and this happens in a game I'm going to rule for an incomplete pass set the ball up and blow it ready for play

I know you cant get into the mind of the qb but from the play explained you can pretty much tell the intent of the play.

Just because there is a receiver in the area does not mean you can't have intentional grounding or illegal forward pass.

If the player is trying to conserve time or avoid a big loss you may have to judge his intentions.

Yes I will give the player the benefit of the doubt but will take a good look at it before i decide.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Wesels

How can you call an illegal forward pass if the QB is in a shot gun formation and presumably there is a RB with in 2 yards of him throwing the ball down to the ground? If I'm wearing the WH and this happens in a game I'm going to rule for an incomplete pass set the ball up and blow it ready for play

I can call an illegal forward pass because he obviously is not throwing it to an eligible receiver.

I have never seen a QB throw this clock-stopping pass anywhere but directly to the ground. The only difference between this pass and the legal pass to stop the clock is the position of the QB. Both passes are thrown to the ground, not near an eligbile receiver. I've never seen a shotgun formation where there was a back on the ground at the feet of the QB waiting for the pass.

As a WH, you do not have the option of ignoring the rule and the intent of the rule.

This is an illegal forward pass that will carry a 5-yard penalty and loss of down from the spot of the foul.

[raider]

Actually, this is intentional grounding, not illegal forward pass. The pass is behind the LOS, so it is legal. (7-5-1 defines this) This actually falls under 7-5-2-d which, if you look at the penalty summary at the end of the section, clearly calls it intentional grounding.

[Wesels]

Originally Posted by Forksref

I can call an illegal forward pass because he obviously is not throwing it to an eligible receiver.

I have never seen a QB throw this clock-stopping pass anywhere but directly to the ground. The only difference between this pass and the legal pass to stop the clock is the position of the QB. Both passes are thrown to the ground, not near an eligbile receiver. I've never seen a shotgun formation where there was a back on the ground at the feet of the QB waiting for the pass.

As a WH, you do not have the option of ignoring the rule and the intent of the rule.

This is an illegal forward pass that will carry a 5-yard penalty and loss of down from the spot of the foul.

Now throw this twist into it: QB is getting rushed and sees his RB trying to block and he throws it as his RB's feet obviously avoiding the sack but you don't call that an illegal forward pass or intentional grounding. WHY???? Because you always say he had an eligible receiver in the area!!!! Same thing as being in a shotgun formation and spiking the ball, just that he is not being rushed and you're going to call illegal forward pass or intentional grounding. I see why the coaches get screwed up and yell at us the way that they do because you're not being consistant. If you don't call it when the QB is being rushed you better not call it when he is not being rushed!!!!!!

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Forksref

I have never seen a QB throw this clock-stopping pass anywhere but directly to the ground.

That's only since they legalized the spike. Before that, you'd've seen them throw it high over a sideline receiver's head.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by buckrog64

In a freshman game tonight, A was lined up in shotgun. The QB took the snap from about 3 or 4 yards from the center and threw the ball forward into the ground.

CANADIAN RULING:

Legal. Deliberate grounding has two musts:

1. avoid a loss of yardage
2. no eligible receiver in the area