NFHS: false start?

[Winkley]

My assignor mentioned to me that he's noticed that the college officials in our high school unit tend to apply false start standards to backs and receivers, rather than just to linemen. The purely high school officials tend to be the ones that interpret the rule to apply only to the linemen. Is this what you see as well?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

As a wingman for 14 years I've learned to leave the backs to R unless they actually go in motion. I've had my @$$ crawled once too often for flagging that missed snap count by the up back

I know it meets the definition of FS but if the "boss" wants it, he can have it.

Well that makes sense. But I have never been given that directive and personally I think that is a bad logic. The wings can see this as well as the Referee and even better than the Referee. What do you do if the Referee clearly misses this? Do you let them live and die with that call?

Peace

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I realize that some may disagree with this, but the "he-can-reset" argument is really old-world thinking. If he jumps as if to start the play, it's a false start--period. Motion requires a smooth, non-abrupt movement. As MJT said, you know when a player is going in motion. Here's my guideline: If the player's movement makes me jump to begin watching for post-snap action, it's a false start and deserves a flag.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: I realize that some may disagree with this, but the "he-can-reset" argument is really old-world thinking. If he jumps as if to start the play, it's a false start--period. Motion requires a smooth, non-abrupt movement. As MJT said, you know when a player is going in motion. Here's my guideline: If the player's movement makes me jump to begin watching for post-snap action, it's a false start and deserves a flag.

Yup, that's exactly how I see it.

And I don't care if I (the WH) or a wing gets it.

[Jim D]

I would let the back reset in most cases. If a back makes a sudden step towards the line and then goes in motion, most officials will let that go. If a back makes a sudden step toward the line and resets, the same group of officials will tend to flag it. Since the first step is the same, I'd treat them the same.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Jim D

I would let the back reset in most cases. If a back makes a sudden step towards the line and then goes in motion, most officials will let that go. If a back makes a sudden step toward the line and resets, the same group of officials will tend to flag it. Since the first step is the same, I'd treat them the same.

REPLY: Jim...would you treat these differently if the defense responded and crossed into the neutral zone?

[JRutledge]

We can talk about this until we are blue in the face. The reality is this is a judgment call all the way. I know I have a philosophy for the backs and receivers different than I do for the lineman. It really is that simple.

Peace

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Jim...would you treat these differently if the defense responded and crossed into the neutral zone?

Yes I would flag A for a false start if B jumped. A's action obviously simulated the start of the play in this case and they get the penalty. Now I know where you're going with this - if B doesn't jump the action is the same so why treat it differently? Answer - No. 1, If they don't jump then no harm, no foul. No. 2, even though A can reset, they messed up by jumping so they get the penalty if one has to be called.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I completely disagree with that last statement. Of course a wing can call this; they might have the best look or knowledge of the movement. If they move sideways the wing probably knows this better than the Referee.

Peace

I tell my wings to concentrate on the 12+ guys on the line. I'll take care of the 3 or 4 backs.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Forksref

I tell my wings to concentrate on the 12+ guys on the line. I'll take care of the 3 or 4 backs.

You can tell them whatever you like. Football officiating is a community effort. Do you tell a wing not to call holding and only watch the ball carrier too? And how is a wing not going to concentrate on players that are possibly their keys? So many things are wrong with that statement.

Peace

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Winkley

My assignor mentioned to me that he's noticed that the college officials in our high school unit tend to apply false start standards to backs and receivers, rather than just to linemen. The purely high school officials tend to be the ones that interpret the rule to apply only to the linemen. Is this what you see as well?

REPLY: Basically what I've seen is that throughout the NCAA and definitely in the NFL, they have gotten to a point where there is consistency in calling a false start based solely on the Team A player's action -- whether it is a lineman, back, WR. All are held to the same standards for pre-snap movement. There is no distinction made. It does appear that it is only in HS and below that we have this inconsistency on how the false start rules are applied.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Basically what I've seen is that throughout the NCAA and definitely in the NFL, they have gotten to a point where there is consistency in calling a false start based solely on the Team A player's action -- whether it is a lineman, back, WR. All are held to the same standards for pre-snap movement. There is no distinction made. It does appear that it is only in HS and below that we have this inconsistency on how the false start rules are applied.

Bob, I think the problem is at the HS level we do not have an assigner or anyone else telling us "we want it called as a FS in all of those cases." Our NCAA assigner has told us to call FS every time in those situations. I know they are told the same in the NFL. This is a ruling in which I don't know why we would call it any other way in NF ball.

In an NFL training tape I have the supervisor says on the voice over, "this play should have shut down and never happened" on a play where a back moved early and a interception was thrown. He said the offense was penalized cuz the official didn't call a FS when he should have. He continues to say, "nothing good can happen when we don't call a FS in these situations."

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You can tell them whatever you like. Football officiating is a community effort. Do you tell a wing not to call holding and only watch the ball carrier too? And how is a wing not going to concentrate on players that are possibly their keys? So many things are wrong with that statement.

Peace

We have a saying, "Watch players, not the ball." Therefore, not often do we watch the runner, prior to imminent contact. And, I've never had a back as a key for anyone. Our keys are on the line. I can't think of any of the 5 positions which uses a back as a key.

I've never told anyone not to call holding. And, if a wing calls a FS on a back, I can accept that, but I will ask if they are watching their keys on the line.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by Forksref

Our keys are on the line. I can't think of any of the 5 positions which uses a back as a key.

The BJ can certainly key on a back. If a wing or a flanker is positioned outside of the tight end on the strong side, they certainly key on a back. Also, the LJ may key on a back to his side if the BJ is keying on the widest end. For example, a balanced formation with two split ends and two slots. The BJ has the split end and the LJ has the slot.

Originally Posted by Forksref

I've never told anyone not to call holding. And, if a wing calls a FS on a back, I can accept that, but I will ask if they are watching their keys on the line.

Can you clarify what you mean? As I understand it, keys are for initial pass coverage only. Until the ball is snapped, you aren't using your keys anyways. Once the offense is set, I determine my keys, then continue with my progression. I look for FS's, shifts, and motion. If I have the motion man, how do I keep watching my keys?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Forksref

We have a saying, "Watch players, not the ball." Therefore, not often do we watch the runner, prior to imminent contact. And, I've never had a back as a key for anyone. Our keys are on the line. I can't think of any of the 5 positions which uses a back as a key.

Mechanics vary from one place to another. I am saying that depending on the formation, the wings have a receiver right in front of them and their key is not just the line. The key is what you watch or observe at the snap. It just makes since that the wings will be watching backs on an occasion. Also the wings are not always able to see the entire line. That is what the R and U should be doing. To each his own and if that is the philosophy you use, I just think it does not make sense. If the officials are watching a particular area, why would you take their judgment away? I just do not think it makes any sense to be so territorial in officiating when you have officials in position to make calls.

Originally Posted by Forksref

I've never told anyone not to call holding. And, if a wing calls a FS on a back, I can accept that, but I will ask if they are watching their keys on the line.

Why does it have to be an either/or watching? The wings need to see the movement of eligible receivers to know whether they have certain penalties. If they are only concentrating on the line, they might miss obvious fouls on other areas in the game. It just does not make any sense.

Peace