NCAA Rules - PAT after a score when time expires.

[With_Two_Flakes]

NCAA Rules.

Team A are behind 7-12. They score a TD as time expires in the 4th quarter to go ahead 13-12. Are they allowed to take the PAT attempt?

Rule 8-3-2-a states:-

The ball shall be put in play by the team that scored a six-point touchdown. If a touchdown is scored during a down in which time in the fourth period expires, the try shall not be attempted unless the point(s) would affect the outcome of the game.

I assume it is the intent of the NCAA Rules Ctte to prevent a despondent Team B (who were, in my example, only seconds away from a 7-12 victory) from having one last chance for some payback at Team A during the PAT? The key phrase is "unless the point(s) would affect the outcome of the game.", how are we meant to interpret this?

I think we would all agree that if the score was 15-12, or 9-12, then the points cannot affect the outcome, and so no PAT is allowed.

I think we would all agree that if the score was 10-12, 11-12, 12-12, then the PAT would be allowed as Team A have a chance to tie or win.

The "grey area" is whether not allowing the PAT when the score is 13-12 or 14-12 is preventing Team B having the (slim) opportunity to tie or win.

Whilst it is unlikely, but possible that an botched PAT might be run back 97yds for 2 points by Team B to win 14-13, I'd guess that every coach in the World would have Team A take-a-knee. Surely it is this possibility of Team B fouling Team A during a take-a-knee play that the Rules Ctte want to remove??

Thoughts please......

[HLin NC]

so there is no need to attempt the try. The same rule holds sway in NFHS also.

You would interpret the "unless it affects the outcome of the game" to be to the advantage of the TD scoring team.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

so there is no need to attempt the try. The same rule holds sway in NFHS also.

You would interpret the "unless it affects the outcome of the game" to be to the advantage of the TD scoring team.

In NF, states can have an exception for playoff points. This is the one Iowa has.

13-POINT TIEBREAKER RULE (8.3.1 EXCEPTION)
If a touchdown is scored during the last down of the fourth period, a try for point shall not be attempted unless
the point(s) would affect the outcome of the game or playoff qualifying. The Iowa rule will be: If the final
score could result in the point differential being 12 points or less, the try will be attempted.
PLAY 1: A-27; B-10. B scores on the last play of the fourth quarter to make the score A-27; B-16.
RULING: The point differential will be 12 points or less. Therefore, the try will be attempted.
PLAY 2: A-7; B-0. A scores on the last play of the fourth period to make the score A-13; B-0.
RULING: The point differential cannot be 12 points or less. Therefore, no try will be attempted.

[Texas Aggie]

Was this a 2006 change? The 2005 rulebook says the try is mandatory unless the team behind leaves the field. I've been working 2005 rules for the past 2 years (Texas HS) and don't have a 2006 book.

[JasonTX]

From the rule book:

2. A try is an opportunity for either team to score one or two
points while the game clock is stopped and is a special interval in a game
which, for purposes of penalty enforcement only, includes both a down and
the “ready’’ period that precedes it.

a. The ball shall be put in play by the team that scored a six-point
touchdown. If a touchdown is scored during a down in which time in the
fourth period expires, the try shall not be attempted unless the point(s)
would affect the outcome of the game.

I think the key part in bold above "oppurtunity for either team" seems to indicate that both teams are entitled to points so if the game could be decided by a 2 pt. return I think the try must be conducted.. By saying the game is over after the TD and not requiring the try you are taking away the "oppurtunity" that team B is provided in the rules and those points would affect the outcome of the game.

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

From the rule book:

2. A try is an opportunity for either team to score one or two
points while the game clock is stopped and is a special interval in a game
which, for purposes of penalty enforcement only, includes both a down and
the “ready’’ period that precedes it.

a. The ball shall be put in play by the team that scored a six-point
touchdown. If a touchdown is scored during a down in which time in the
fourth period expires, the try shall not be attempted unless the point(s)
would affect the outcome of the game.

I think the key part in bold above "oppurtunity for either team" seems to indicate that both teams are entitled to points so if the game could be decided by a 2 pt. return I think the try must be conducted.. By saying the game is over after the TD and not requiring the try you are taking away the "oppurtunity" that team B is provided in the rules and those points would affect the outcome of the game.

Those were my thoughts but I am still in the process of learning NCAA rules. Since B can score on a PAT, I say you give them the opportunity. If A is smart, they would just down the ball and get off the field.

[With_Two_Flakes]

http://www1.ncaa.org/eprise/main/pla...PreviewState=0

This has been bugging me for several days, so I thought I'd see if the NCAA had already made a ruling and found a Rules Bulletin (link above). Play #11 seems to cover it.

I was wrong, the PAT should be run.

With_Two_Flakes

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by With_Two_Flakes

http://www1.ncaa.org/eprise/main/pla...PreviewState=0

This has been bugging me for several days, so I thought I'd see if the NCAA had already made a ruling and found a Rules Bulletin (link above). Play #11 seems to cover it.

I was wrong, the PAT should be run.

With_Two_Flakes

Good find.

I don't have my NFHS books handy; anyone know how this would be covered in a high school game?

[ljudge]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Good find.

I don't have my NFHS books handy; anyone know how this would be covered in a high school game?

Game over. Once B gains possession the ball becomes dead on a try.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Mark...For NFHS, since B can't score under any circumstances (Oregon experiment notwithstanding), the game will end--unless the potential points that A would get on the try will affect playoff qualification/seeding.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by With_Two_Flakes

NCAA Rules.

Team A are behind 7-12. They score a TD as time expires in the 4th quarter to go ahead 13-12. Are they allowed to take the PAT attempt?

Rule 8-3-2-a states:-


I assume it is the intent of the NCAA Rules Ctte to prevent a despondent Team B (who were, in my example, only seconds away from a 7-12 victory) from having one last chance for some payback at Team A during the PAT? The key phrase is "unless the point(s) would affect the outcome of the game.", how are we meant to interpret this?

I think we would all agree that if the score was 15-12, or 9-12, then the points cannot affect the outcome, and so no PAT is allowed.

I think we would all agree that if the score was 10-12, 11-12, 12-12, then the PAT would be allowed as Team A have a chance to tie or win.

The "grey area" is whether not allowing the PAT when the score is 13-12 or 14-12 is preventing Team B having the (slim) opportunity to tie or win.

Whilst it is unlikely, but possible that an botched PAT might be run back 97yds for 2 points by Team B to win 14-13, I'd guess that every coach in the World would have Team A take-a-knee. Surely it is this possibility of Team B fouling Team A during a take-a-knee play that the Rules Ctte want to remove??

Thoughts please......

I don't know US rules (I'm Canadian), but if B can score on a convert attempt, you must allow the convert to happen!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Mark...For NFHS, since B can't score under any circumstances (Oregon experiment notwithstanding), the game will end--unless the potential points that A would get on the try will affect playoff qualification/seeding.

Good call - it's been too long since I've done real football.

[BoomerSooner]

This situation actually happened a couple of years ago when OU lost to Texas Tech on the instant replay bonanza. Tech scored (not really but for the sake of the argument) to make the score 24-23 (I think). Everybody thought the game was over as there was no time on the clock. The officials made Tech try the attempt, which they complied with by taking a knee, but the play could have resulted in OU scoring the winning points so the try had to be attempted.

[Theisey]

Well if it were a couple years ago(2005 and earlier) the TRY was mandatory "unless the team behind in the score leaves the field".

That's what really happened. TTech was required to do attempt the try as OSU didn't leave the field.

In 2006, the rule was changed. Here's what it says now. "the try shall not be attempted unless the points(s) would affect the outcome of the game."

Big difference if the game is out of reach.

[jaybird]

TTech was required to do attempt the try as OSU didn't leave the field.

B/S post indicated it was OU/TT. By mistakenly adding the S, you are giving soonerites too much credit. You see, they can only handle TWO letters not three!