Need help from the pros - Can the winner of the

[Bob M.]

REPLY: We really need to get some substantive discussion going on this board. Arguing over semantics isn't really productive IMHO. I see what the NFL Rule Book says, but has anyone ever heard an R on mike ask the winner, "Which team do you want to receive?" No...he asks the winner what he wants to do. So even though the rule book says there are two choices, in practicality, the winner is offered one of three choices. Let's move on...

[NickelDeuce]

No kidding. We would sit in here and argue about this for two more pages. Who cares??

[wwcfoa43]

If we are arguing semantics then depending what you call a "choice" there are either TWO or FOUR choices (but not three):

One definition would have TWO choices:

1. Kick or receive.
2. Defend this end or that end.

The other definition would have FOUR choices:

1. Kick
2. Receive
3. Defend this end.
4. Defend that end.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by wwcfoa43

If we are arguing semantics then depending what you call a "choice" there are either TWO or FOUR choices (but not three):

One definition would have TWO choices:

1. Kick or receive.
2. Defend this end or that end.

The other definition would have FOUR choices:

1. Kick
2. Receive
3. Defend this end.
4. Defend that end.

We wish we weren't arguing semantics. This was a 2 post thread if ever there was one. 18 posts? Absurd.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by golfnref

The last sentence of the rule states: The winner of the toss must choose one of two privileges and the loser is given the other. The two privileges are:

(a) which team is to receive; or

(b) the goal his team will defend.

Only b/c the pertinent basketball seasons are over for me and I have plenty of time to nitpick.

The rule says: (a) Receive or kick or (b) Goal his team will defend.

[golfnref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Only b/c the pertinent basketball seasons are over for me and I have plenty of time to nitpick.

The rule says: (a) Receive or kick or (b) Goal his team will defend.

My quote was from the NFL Rule Book. What is your source?

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by golfnref

Look at Roy Gardner's post on Feb. 26. He quoted the NFL rule.

Specifically, it is in Rule 4, Section 2, Article 1. Toss of Coin

The last sentence of the rule states: The winner of the toss must choose one of two privileges and the loser is given the other. The two privileges are:

(a) which team is to receive; or

(b) the goal his team will defend.

Does not the referee ask, "Do you want to kick, receive, or defend a goal"?

Bob

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Actually in the NFL, the R really never gets a chance to ask anything. The winner just tells him what they want, normally, "We'll take the ball." Then he looks at the other guy who points to the goal he wants to defend. And we're done...hopefully here as well!

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by wwcfoa43

The other definition would have FOUR choices:

1. Kick
2. Receive
3. Defend this end.
4. Defend that end.

As I pondered your koan, I wondered about the captains other choices: his breakfast that morning, regular or high-test and should he ask the cheerleader for her number even though he is married.

Perhaps that's why the rule book offers that he has two "privileges". His choices seem to be unlimited.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Forksref

It's not really metric. They still have yards, but MORE of them! They can only count to 3 (for downs) but up to 12 (for players) and motion toward the LOS is allowed. They like FB but had to make a point that it would be different from U.S. FB.

It's not that so much as that they kept some rules that were changed in USAn football, or if they changed them they changed them to a lesser degree. So a 4th down was added in USAn football only. USAn football reduced the number of players from 15 to 11 in one fell swoop; in Canadian football it was reduced from 15 to 14, then 12. Only USAn football shortened the distance between the goal lines from 110 to 100 yards. Only USAn football adopted restrictions on backfield motion.

Many of the changes in USAn football were also adopted in full by Canadian football, but later. A relatively tiny handful of significant rule differences were original to Canadian football.

Robert

[JugglingReferee]

I once heard that the US uses a 100 yard field because at a game once at Harvard there was not enough real estate for the larger field, and this new format stuck.

[NickelDeuce]

What is USAn??

[HossHumard]

It was me that brought up the metric issue, but as a joke. My point was to let the board know that the option to defer choice to the second half (the question that began this thread) was available in football north of the border and I’m sure it has nothing to do with metric vs. standard measure. It's more concerning the fall Beaver migration in Saskatchewan as I understand it.

With regard to the difference in size of the fields, and I acknowledge that it would never happen, but I’ve often wondered what those great NFL athletes would do with a Canadian Field (110 x 65 & 20 yd. end zones). The players have increased significantly in size over the past 30 years but the field has remained the same size…love to see them enjoy a little more real estate!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by HossHumard

The players have increased significantly in size over the past 30 years but the field has remained the same size…love to see them enjoy a little more real estate!

This has also happened in hockey, basketball, lacrosse. And baseball maybe too! I'd love to see 11 foot nets, and a larger rink for hockey and lacrosse. The US field should go back to it's northern roots to match the Canadian field! :P

[FredFan7]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Actually in the NFL, the R really never gets a chance to ask anything. The winner just tells him what they want, normally, "We'll take the ball." Then he looks at the other guy who points to the goal he wants to defend.

The R is lucky if when he turns the loser of the toss is still there. Usually the losing captain gives some half hearted point in the direction of the goal they want to defend, and runs off. The captains never "line up" like in college or HS for the referee to make the final announcement. I guess the NFL players are big boys who don't need to be lined up anymore, but call me old school on this one.

In one OT last year Ron Winter tossed the coin, declared the winner, looked to the captain who gave the "receive" signal, turned and ran off the field. Winter turned to the other captain who had already run off the field and had to shout to him to get the goal option.

I need a life I know, but this is a real pet peeve of mine at the NFL level.