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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 09:03am
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Colts vs Pats Game

Want to give props to one of our Iowa refs BJ Scott Helverson on the two big calls in yesterdays game.

The no call pass int before half where the Colts play tripped on his own foot and the TD call with the Pats Gafney?? in the back of the end zone.

Two tough calls but replay show he nailed them both.

Congrats Scott on a job well done.
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 09:17am
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I'm a disinterested party since I'm an Eagles fan and a basketball ref.

My question is the pass interference call when Ellis Hobbs was guarding Reggie Wayne in the left corner of the end zone in the 3rd quarter.

Is there a face-guarding element to Defensive PI? Hobbs clearly was not looking back at the ball. But he also did not touch Wayne at all nor did he put his hands directly in front of Wayne's face. Hobbs guessed right and flailed his arm at the right moment and the ball hit him in the back of his left arm.

thank you my football brethren.
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 09:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
I'm a disinterested party since I'm an Eagles fan and a basketball ref.

My question is the pass interference call when Ellis Hobbs was guarding Reggie Wayne in the left corner of the end zone in the 3rd quarter.

Is there a face-guarding element to Defensive PI? Hobbs clearly was not looking back at the ball. But he also did not touch Wayne at all nor did he put his hands directly in front of Wayne's face. Hobbs guessed right and flailed his arm at the right moment and the ball hit him in the back of his left arm.

thank you my football brethren.
REPLY: I don't think there's a non-contact face-guarding restriction in the NFL (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but there was some contact on the play and since Hobbs was not playing the ball and effectively "cut off" Wayne's path to the ball that was a little under thrown, the call was probably justified. The color commentator (Simms?) probably shouldn't have used that term in describing the action since most officials associate the word face-guarding with blocking the vision of the opponent.

And BoBo...I'm with you--nice job by Helverson on those calls. On the no-call, I'm assuming the deep wing threw the flag and Helverson came in with the additional information that made them pick it up. (Amazingly, it took the announcers a few replays in slo-mo before they saw that the receiver tripped himself. On the second, he conferred briefly with the deep wing to make sure they both saw the same thing.
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Last edited by Bob M.; Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:31am.
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 10:54am
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Great patience by the two deep guys on the shove out. Also, great job getting together on the apparent DPI. They did an outstanding job.

And to the best of my knowledge there is no face guarding. There must have been contact. I was a little interested in the no call in the endzone on the fade towards the side (can't remember any more specifics). Looked like there was some contact.
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 11:04am
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Although I was rooting for Indy, on New England's 3rd down pass in the endzone before they kicked their last TD, the receiver got mugged in the endzone. That call should have been made. It was certainly not incidental and probably prevented the TD.
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 11:12am
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There does have to be contact in the NFL, but there may have been some earlier. I thought both crews did an outstanding job!!!!
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 11:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob M.
And BoBo...I'm with you--nice job by Helverson on those calls. On the no-call, I'm assuming the deep wing threw the flag and Helverson came in with the additional information that made them pick it up. (Amazingly, it took the announcers a few replays in slo-mo before they saw that the receiver tripped himself. On the second, he conferred briefly with the deep wing to make sure they both saw the same thing.
Except that he didn't trip himself. His leg bumped the leg of the defender which caused it to hit his other leg taking him down. Not being a football ref, I assume this is what is meant by incidental contact and tangling of the feet, but it definately was the result of contact between the players.
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 11:32am
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on the "shove-out" TD, did anyone else think it looked like the receiver jumped with his heal on the end-line? Replays never really showed any sort of good angle/look, but I suspect his toes couldn't be that close to the line and his heal not touch it.
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 11:52am
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The replays I saw of the push out touchdown, eventually showed that his heels were in the air...never really on the line...it wasn't a good look, but it did appear that way. Judging by the calls those guys nailed before and after, and the fact that they were standing right there watching that very thing, I will certainly jump on their bandwagon, it was a great call....

I was confused about the no DPI in the endzone though with Caldwell...would like to hear some comment from the involved parties there....
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 12:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmathews
The replays I saw of the push out touchdown, eventually showed that his heels were in the air...never really on the line...it wasn't a good look, but it did appear that way. Judging by the calls those guys nailed before and after, and the fact that they were standing right there watching that very thing, I will certainly jump on their bandwagon, it was a great call....

I was confused about the no DPI in the endzone though with Caldwell...would like to hear some comment from the involved parties there....
As someone with a huge rooting interest for the Colts in this game (I live in Indy), I thought the officials did a great job!! The reversal of the Wayne interference was dead on (I didn't think the defender even touched his leg as Eastshire stated but either way it was the correct call). I agree the coverage of the pass prior to NE's last FG looked like interference but I'm not sure which official was keyed on that receiver and what angle they had. The play right before the Wayne reversal there did appear to be interference on NE but it was not called. That was a quick pass over the middle and I can't imagine the deep receivers or even the wings would have had a good angle. The only ones who could have seen it were the R and U and they wouldn't be looking at the receiver at that point.

Great job by the crew!! That's why they are at that level and working that game!!
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 12:15pm
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Good day for the deep officials

Everything we say about eyecontact, communication, position, etc. was displayed in both CC games. The call with the force-out in the Colts game and the play by the goal line in the Chicago game was very-well covered by the deep wing and the back judge in these games.

Nice pieces of officating in both games.
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 12:19pm
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There's another play I've seen the Colts get away with a few times and they did it twice again yesterday. It's the plays where NE defense jumps offsides but does not make contact and then a Colt's lineman moves.

Prior to a few years ago, this would have been a foul on the offense since the defense can enter the NZ as long as they get back before the snap. They changed the rule so that if the offensive player moved in reaction to the defensive player jumping offside, the foul would be against the defense since they theoretically caused the movement.

I thought there was a stipulation in the rule (but I guess it is based on a comment by the announcers so it could be wrong), that the movement by the offense had to be a reaction to the defense jumping and not an intentional movement to make the defense's action a foul.

In both plays yesterday, the Colts lineman moved and immediately pointed at the defensive player (and it wasn't the offensive lineman directly across from the defender who moved). They've done that several times the past few games and the call has always gone against the defense.

Thoughts? Were these the correct calls?
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 12:27pm
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I didn't think the one with the faceguarding was worthy of dpi. I didn't see much, if any, contact.
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 12:28pm
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As a diehard Pats fan who for many years had season tickets I'm in mourning for a day.

As a football fan, one of the best games I've ever seen! So, congrats to the Colts and Manning for getting it done.

As a fellow football official, congrats to the crews in both games, especially in the Pats-Colts game. That was IMO one of the best displays of a crew working together as a true team that I've seen in a long time.
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Last edited by RoyGardner; Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 02:26pm.
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Old Mon Jan 22, 2007, 01:32pm
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eye contact etc

As was said above, they demonstrated everything we get told, take your time, eye contact etc....and remember these were "all star" crews, not guys that work together normally, so it was that much more important to demonstrate these small things....great job...
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