NCAA Safety Question

[ljudge]

Play:

3rd and goal on B4. Back A32 takes a handoff from A11 at the B-5 and runs to the B-1 where he fumbles the ball into the end zone. B33 bats the ball in the end zone and the ball hits the end line pylon.

The ruling I was given is:

Safety, 2 pt for B. 4-2-3-b, 8-5-1-b, 8-5-2, 9-4-1-c

I'm misunderstanding (I believe 8-5-1-b). I had this being A's ball 3rd and goal from the 1/2 yard line. I thought A would be responsible for the impetus of the ball and since B33's foul is illegal (happened in the endzone) the penalty would be marked off from the end of A11's run, which is the 1.

Can anyone explain this so I get it thru my thick head?

[ABoselli]

I'm thinking A gets the points if B committed a foul in its own EZ.

[TXMike]

Batting the loose ball in any direction is a foul but the enforcement spot is the end of the related run (which is where A lost possession). The result of the play is NOT a safety because the impetus is charged to A's fumble (batting a loose ball that is in the end zone does not impart new impetus). The result of the play is a touchback for B but A will not permit that as they will accept the penalty. It will be A's ball , 3d and G at the 1/2 yard line

[AndrewMcCarthy]

Where did you get that ruling from?

I have this foul occurng during a running play (per the definition) and the foul would be enforced from the end of the run.

A 3rd and goal from the 1/2.

[grantsrc]

Isn't it a foul to bat the ball in any direction while the ball is in the endzone?

See 9-4-1c

[ljudge]

OK, maybe I'm correct after all. I had the ball in my original post at the half-yard line as you do. I questioned the e-mail I received and waiting a response.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by grantsrc

Isn't it a foul to bat the ball in any direction while the ball is in the endzone?

See 9-4-1c

Yes it is. That is why the penalty takes the ball to the 1/2 yard line (from the end of run which is the 1)

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by grantsrc

Isn't it a foul to bat the ball in any direction while the ball is in the endzone?

Indeed. But it's only a safety if the offense fouls in their own end zone.

[ljudge]

Someone got back to me about the ruling I was originally given. It's not a safety as you all have said here.

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire

Indeed. But it's only a safety if the offense fouls in their own end zone.

Well let's see. If, on this same play the ball had gone out of the endzone (impetus by A) causing what would be a touchback, then I believe the defense could have scored a safety on itself because this would then be a spot foul. Agree?

[TXMike]

Maybe I am missing what you are saying but if the ball is still loose from the fumble when it is batted by B, the enforcement spot is still the end of the run. Still not a safety.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by ljudge

Someone got back to me about the ruling I was originally given. It's not a safety as you all have said here.



Well let's see. If, on this same play the ball had gone out of the endzone (impetus by A) causing what would be a touchback, then I believe the defense could have scored a safety on itself because this would then be a spot foul. Agree?

No - did B have possession at the moment of the foul? No... so it's a LBP - enforced at the end of the run. Your sitch is essentially the same as the OP.

Give B possession in the EZ, and a fumble while trying to run it out, and THEN the illegal bat in the EZ, and you have a safety.

[ljudge]

What a STUPID remark I made! Didn't think that one through (obviously).

[wwcfoa43]

In Canada, a fumble into the end zone last touched by B is treated as an interception in the end zone. Batting the ball forward is an offside pass by B which is not in itself a foul though it does in this case carry a penalty. The penalty for an offside pass by B in their end zone would be treated the same way as if B were tackled at that spot. So whether or not A accepts the penalty for the B offside pass, the result would be Team B possession 1st and 10 at the B 20 yard line.