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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 10:34am
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Auburn/Florida Game

Did anyone see the Auburn/Florida game where Auburn blocked a punt and then an Auburn player picked up the ball ran about 10 yards to the 2 yard line and did a dive into a somersault into the end zone. There weren't any Florida players close to the eight or so Auburn players escorting the ball carrier. I thought this was supposed to be an automatic USC flag, two officials looking right at it and no flag.
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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 10:37am
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I thought that should have been flagged, also. In the same game there was a holding call in the endzone I didn't think should have been made. The blocker did not appear to hold the defender, he just pushed him to the ground and fell on him.

Last edited by Smiley; Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 10:44am.
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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 10:41am
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It is called judgment. Nothing is "automatic." We really need to stop using that term when nothing is automatic in the first place. The officials passed on this for some reason and maybe they had a reason. He also did not run very far and the player had a lot of people around him. We also do not know the philosophy of the conference for this call. Could this have been a call? Of course it could have been, but it was not called. That is life.

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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 10:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley
I though that should have been flagged, also. In the same game there was a holding call in the endzone I didn't think should have been made. The blocker did not appear to hold the defender, he just pushed him to the ground and fell on him.
It may have been the most blatant dive (USC foul) I have see in college football game. I have seen much less flagged in other games, it seemed to be a no-brainer! It will be on the NCAA football rules video next year.
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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 10:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
It is called judgment. Nothing is "automatic." We really need to stop using that term when nothing is automatic in the first place. The officials passed on this for some reason and maybe they had a reason. He also did not run very far and the player had a lot of people around him. We also do not know the philosophy of the conference for this call. Could this have been a call? Of course it could have been, but it was not called. That is life.

Peace
When there isn't a defensive player around and the offensive player dives as the Auburn player did, it is as close to an automatic USC as you can get as described by the NCAA. Why do the take the time and money to put out the NCAA rules videos if we can't enforce this.
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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 10:50am
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I was the play and immediatelt was looking for a flag. I was very surprised that it was not called.
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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 10:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef
When there isn't a defensive player around and the offensive player dives as the Auburn player did, it is as close to an automatic USC as you can get as described by the NCAA. Why do the take the time and money to put out the NCAA rules videos if we can't enforce this.
I have seen this called when a defender was right behind the ball carrier. This is why I hate the "automatic" lable.

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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 10:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I have seen this called when a defender was right behind the ball carrier. This is why I hate the "automatic" lable.

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Okay JRut, I would think there could have been a "very strong possibility" that there should have been a flag for USC on the play in question.
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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 11:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef
Okay JRut, I would think there could have been a "very strong possibility" that there should have been a flag for USC on the play in question.
The reality is it was not called. So now what? And what you or I think about it does not matter. This is not the first example of this not being called this season. A lot of things are not called the way you or I feel they should be. Welcome to the real world of officiating. If officials always did what they were supposed to, there would be no NCAA videos or downgrades with officials and crews.

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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 11:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
The reality is it was not called. So now what? And what you or I think about it does not matter. This is not the first example of this not being called this season. A lot of things are not called the way you or I feel they should be. Welcome to the real world of officiating. If officials always did what they were supposed to, there would be no NCAA videos or downgrades with officials and crews.

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Very good points.
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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 12:01pm
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What's the spirit of the rule? To penalize/deter taunting/showboating. The Auburn player recovered the ball with the intent of scoring, but it's always a trick to pick it up on the run, not fully balanced. He also had no way of knowing if he had a Florida player ready to tackle him, so in order to insure that he got into the end zone, he dove. The flip was incidental to the dive. He wasn't showboating, and he certainly wasn't taunting Florida, he was just doing what he knew would absolutely insure that he got in, even in the event that he was grabbed from behind. Now, if he had picked it up at the 20 and been running at full-speed by the time he hit the 10 and dived/flipped from the 2, then it becomes a showboat move that would have justified the USC call.

You can come with the snark of "why waste money on training videos," etc., but you either didn't know or don't remember that the worst flag of the SEC season last year was a bad unsportsmanlike flag on Vanderbilt that cost them an opportunity to go for two and beat Florida in Gainesville. The SEC clearly wants it crews to make absolutely certain that USC fouls for celebration are warranted, which goes to Rut's point about conference philosophies. A flag on the play in the AU-UF game would not have helped the game one whit.
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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 12:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbduke
What's the spirit of the rule? To penalize/deter taunting/showboating. The Auburn player recovered the ball with the intent of scoring, but it's always a trick to pick it up on the run, not fully balanced. He also had no way of knowing if he had a Florida player ready to tackle him, so in order to insure that he got into the end zone, he dove. The flip was incidental to the dive. He wasn't showboating, and he certainly wasn't taunting Florida, he was just doing what he knew would absolutely insure that he got in, even in the event that he was grabbed from behind. Now, if he had picked it up at the 20 and been running at full-speed by the time he hit the 10 and dived/flipped from the 2, then it becomes a showboat move that would have justified the USC call.

You can come with the snark of "why waste money on training videos," etc., but you either didn't know or don't remember that the worst flag of the SEC season last year was a bad unsportsmanlike flag on Vanderbilt that cost them an opportunity to go for two and beat Florida in Gainesville. The SEC clearly wants it crews to make absolutely certain that USC fouls for celebration are warranted, which goes to Rut's point about conference philosophies. A flag on the play in the AU-UF game would not have helped the game one whit.
I don't know if we were watching the same game, I basically disagree with everything you wrote.
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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 12:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbduke
but you either didn't know or don't remember that the worst flag of the SEC season last year was a bad unsportsmanlike flag on Vanderbilt that cost them an opportunity to go for two and beat Florida in Gainesville. The SEC clearly wants it crews to make absolutely certain that USC fouls for celebration are warranted, which goes to Rut's point about conference philosophies.
I had completely had forgotten about that game. I am sure there was a lot of conversation in the SEC about what to call or not to call. Let us also remember the SEC is a conference (whether you like or not) is using mechanics that are not approved by the NCAA. Not that this play has much to do with it, but what happen in the Vandy game had to factor in what the conference wanted.

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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 01:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef
I don't know if we were watching the same game, I basically disagree with everything you wrote.
I agree, his description of the play is not what I saw.
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Old Mon Oct 16, 2006, 01:39pm
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REPLY: One other thing to remember here is that the correct ruling in this situation relies on a little more than just judgment. The NCAA added to their rule book a list of items they wanted flagged as USC. Just FYI...here's the list:
No player, substitute, coach or other person subject to the rules shall use abusive, threatening or obscene language or gestures, or engage in such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game, including but not limited to:
(a) Pointing the finger(s), hand(s), arm(s) or ball at an opponent, or imitating the slashing of the throat.
(b) Taunting, baiting or ridiculing an opponent verbally.
(c) Inciting an opponent or spectators in any other way, such as simulating the firing of a weapon or placing a hand by the ear to request recognition.
(d) Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player (or players) attempts to focus attention upon himself (or themselves).
(e) Obviously altering stride as an unopposed runner approaches the opponent’s goal line, or diving into the end zone when unopposed.
(f) Removal of a player’s helmet before he is in the team area (Exceptions: Team, media or injury timeouts; equipment adjustment; through play; between periods; and during a measurement for a first down).
(g) Punching one’s own chest or crossing one’s arms in front of the chest while standing over a prone player.
(h) Going into the stands to interact with spectators, or bowing at the waist after a good play.
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