Sportmanship--What can officials do?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by sloth

I've thought on it since then and have come to the conclusion that I did the right thing and I'd do it again in a second if the same thing happened.

Good flag. One thing that burns me is when you do throw this type of flag and it's suggested that you should warn the coach or player first. My opinion is that they try this crap because they expect to get off with a warning because that's how someone else handled it in the past.

Throw that flag and consider that the warning for next week.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire

Wow. Just... wow. I've met some sorry coaches in my day (and some damn fine ones, too). But that is a new low. Not only would I have flagged this coach, but he's done in my game - I don't care what level it is, crap like that doesn't belong on the football field at all, and from a coach it's inexcusable.

And what exactly would you flag the coach for? Do you have a case book cite that calls for a foul against a team for being too good?

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by parepat

While I'm at it. Why is team L still playing team W if they haven't scored in seven years. Sounds like the AD might have some questions to answer. Is team W coach a jerk. Absolutely. Does he have the right to be a jerk. Absolutely! Why? Because in a fair competition he trounced team L. How do we prevent this. Team L improves.

I guess you don't know much about high school sports. High schools really don't have a whole lot of say in who they play. The school I coached at the football team had one game that they could schedule on their own. The rest of the games were already scheduled based on conference and district obligations and those are set by the state. You can ask to be moved to another conference or district, but the state is going to need a lot better reason than the other teams are better if they are going to make all those schedule changes.

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

“Records are sometimes worth pursuing, sportsmanship be damned.”

Did the guy really say that?

Sportsmanship should never, never, never, never never be damned. Ever. It was true with the "Florida Flop" of 1971 and it's true today.

Some guys need to be b!tchslapped.

Yes he did say that when asked if all the calls and emails and grief he has taken over all this was worth it.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by parepat

And what exactly would you flag the coach for? Do you have a case book cite that calls for a foul against a team for being too good?

I suspect we're talking about different things - I was referring to sloth's post in which the coach called an opposing player a "cry baby." I suspect you're talking about the original, running-up-the-score scenario.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by gsf23

I guess you don't know much about high school sports. High schools really don't have a whole lot of say in who they play. The school I coached at the football team had one game that they could schedule on their own. The rest of the games were already scheduled based on conference and district obligations and those are set by the state. You can ask to be moved to another conference or district, but the state is going to need a lot better reason than the other teams are better if they are going to make all those schedule changes.

What you probably meant to say was "in our god forsaken part of the country the AD does not have control over the schedule." I can tell you that in many, many areas the school does have control over what teams and conferences they play. Maybe neither one of us knows much about high school sports.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire

I suspect we're talking about different things - I was referring to sloth's post in which the coach called an opposing player a "cry baby." I suspect you're talking about the original, running-up-the-score scenario.

You are exactly right. I am wrong. My apologies.

[OverAndBack]

Had a game tonight get out of hand, freshman A game, second game of a doubleheader on a cold night, last game of the season for both teams.

Home team was on us (I was on their sideline) from the get-go. Wanted me to call a clip all the way on the other side of the field (of course it was "right in front of me," like anything 53 yards away is), wanted this, wanted that, wanted a late hit on a shove on the sideline that didn't even send the runner to the ground, wanted a face guarding call on a pass downfield on the opposite side, yadda yadda yadda.

Anyway, they were losing 35-0 in the fourth, they finally score and a kid on their team drops an f-bomb in the direction of an opponent. By that point, with only a few minutes left in the game, I was going to pretend I didn't hear it just for the good of the order and to get us out of there, but the WH heard it and flagged it, which, of course, incensed the home sideline even more.

First play after the kickoff goes to the other side, and two kids completely behind the play and out of range of everything get to wrasslin' and take each other down, I go over to break it up and one kid grabs the other's facemask. The WH's flag comes in before I can get mine out, but the assistant coach on my side cops an attitude (don't know why, we got the flag).

Now, I'm trying to get better at sideline decorum, so I don't bark at the guy, but I just look at him, and that sets him off: "I haven't given you any crap all night, why are you staring me down?"

So shortly thereafter, visiting team gets a first down on a run on 4th and 1 and the play's over and all of a sudden I hear a fracas and two kids are into it. I didn't see it start, just the fight as they're already into it. I'm trying to make sure people don't come in off the bench on my side to make it worse (and, this being the first fight I've had in three years, I forget to beanbag the spot, which I should have). We end up throwing the instigator out (home team player) and the other kid from the other team (I shudder to think of what might have happened if it hadn't been even).

The last 3 minutes plus just would not end, despite the fact the winning team did nothing but run up the middle. We got the hell out of there.

Anyway, it's odd that some teams that know they're not as good as the team they're playing will be calm enough on the sidelines when they're getting pounded, and others seem to find us an easy target. You just never know what you're going to get. I've even had some teams that were winning big who just wouldn't let stuff go.

I honestly don't think we had that bad a game, certainly no worse than any other 42-8 game you've ever seen, and there were only three of us (two wings and a referee) so what are you going to do?

Couple of lessons learned, though - the kid who instigated the fight was ticked off a few minutes prior on a touchdown play that just broke the plane, and the WH had to talk to him. In retrospect, we probably should have told the coach that for the good of the order, maybe #48 should sit out a series to cool out.

And I learned to remember to beanbag the spot before you go in to break up a fight.

[MJT]

Fights in a freshmen game is really sad.

[waltjp]

I had a similar experience with the visiting coaches in a JV game this week. I was on their sideline and listened to the crap from an assistant coach for the better part of 3 quarters. He cried about EVERYTHING. That's a clip! That's a hold! How can you can that? How can that be roughing the kicker when we blocked the punt?!

I let all of this slide without even turning to look at the bench but I finally had enough when this coach started saying that they wouldn't get a call because they were the visiting team. I finally turned and asked him, "Are you questioning my integrity?"

He was startled at first but then replied that he was talking to another coach and it was just his opinion.

My final words to him, "It stops right here. I've heard enough!"

Shame of it was this was a very close game that was decided in the final minute.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by waltjp

I let all of this slide without even turning to look at the bench but I finally had enough when this coach started saying that they wouldn't get a call because they were the visiting team. I finally turned and asked him, "Are you questioning my integrity?"

Ooh, I could have used that one when I heard a "Of course, you're not going to call anything on them."

I try not to have rabbit ears, but "are you questioning my integrity?" sounds like it would be a good conversation stopper.

[waltjp]

Different sport, I know, but one you learn from one you can apply to another...

I've had exactly 1 nose to nose shouting match with a baseball manager. This was 10+ years ago. Afterwards I promised myself that I'd never get engaged in an argument like that again. I choose to stay calm, listen to the manager or coach, tell him why I made the call I did and then I walk away. If he wants to continue I tell him that the discussion is over and it's time to get back to the game. Anything he says after that may subject him to the appropriate penalty.

[OverAndBack]

Isn't it odd how the dynamics of official/coach interaction seem to differ from sport to sport?

In baseball, managers seem to have no qualms about coming all the way out, getting in your face and taking their sweet time about making their displeasure known.

In basketball, because of the proximity between them and us, you get a little of that, but rarely is it to the same degree.

In football, the space seems wider, there are more of us than there are in other sports, and I can't remember seeing too many instances where a coach (besides Bill Cowher) goes after an official.

Just interesting to note.

I have my last sophomore game tonight, last night of the regular season, and I'm going to make a conscious effort to remain calm at all times and not do anything to antagonize anybody.