Sportmanship--What can officials do?

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Surprised the OTHER coach didn't take matters into his own hands. Why punt - ever? Why limit themselves to 11 on the field? Incur the 15 yard penalty for IP if necessary (perhaps explaining what you're doing so you don't get the normal DB IS instead). Heck, put 15 guys out there - you stop the kid's run if they decline the penalty, and you shorten the field if they take it, and this kid doesn't get his yards. I don't see this as any less sportsmanlike than the offending team letting punts roll. Intentionally false start or DOG when on offense, running the clock (surely in THIS case the R wouldn't invoke the "clock at the snap" thing).

I don't know ... just thinking out loud.

Game becomes a travesty, then. You might as well play APBA.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Game becomes a travesty, then. You might as well play APBA.

You're probably right.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

As said earlier we can't stretch the rules and impose on our integrality. As hard as it may seem we just have to stand by and watch this travesty of a game and a coach that has no business working with kids. It is our job to enforce sportsmanship within the framework of the rules given to us by the NFHS and our own state. This has generated a lot a discussion around the country and hopefully the next coach that decides to do something like this thinks twice.

It seems like you disagree.

Are you telling me that you call a hold the same for 19 year old vs. 10 year olds? I didn't think so. I merely decided that in this game, that loose ball contact is a foul. Another game it likely won't be. If the loosing team came back to score 42 unanswered points in less than 6 minutes, then my call that I could have flagged/could have not flagged is the least of the other team's worries.

I don't condone making up fouls, but geesh mister Goodwill, where's your goodwill?

Are you saying running up the score is a travesty? I don't agree with your statement that the coach does not having any business working with kids. What if the disparity between the teams is such that even with the winning team having their 2nd/3rd stringers in, they still score points. Do you want to tell the 3rd stringers to not try their hardest to score points? Don't we afford these players the chance to learn, expand their skill, and try their hardest?

[sloth]

This may not be in the same vein as some of the other post, but it has to deal with sportsmanship and my game last night. I'm the LJ. Ball is on my hash. Incomplete screen pass with a defender hitting the reciever (team on other side of the field) a fraction of a second after the ball was incomplete...I have no penalty. Reciever, respectfully, ask me why there was no penalty on the late hit. As I try to explain it to him I hear from an assistant behind me (maybe 5 yards away) "go back to your sidelines cry-baby"...not believeing what I just heard I turn around and see this assistant leaning over and rubbing his eyes in the cry baby sort of sign saying "wa, wa". I know the opponent player say and hear this as he was right by me.

Without a second thought flag was out and we asses a 15 USC on the coach. Later, at the half, the white hat suggested that the best way to handle that is to talk to the head coach and if it doesn't get better then you flag it. I've thought on it since then and have come to the conclusion that I did the right thing and I'd do it again in a second if the same thing happened.

I'm in my third full year as a varsity official (all as LJ). I've been insulted, called names and had my judgement questioned more time that I can count. I've never had an USC on a coach. I have very thick skin and I'm willing to allow a coach some room to vent. I will use preventative officiating in those instances and allow the HC to take care of assistants. But I draw the line at a coach taunting opposing players. Thats one of those things that in my book, gets no warning and no second chances. I'm glad I did what I did despite the objections of the rest of my crew.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by sloth

This may not be in the same vein as some of the other post, but it has to deal with sportsmanship and my game last night. I'm the LJ. Ball is on my hash. Incomplete screen pass with a defender hitting the reciever (team on other side of the field) a fraction of a second after the ball was incomplete...I have no penalty. Reciever, respectfully, ask me why there was no penalty on the late hit. As I try to explain it to him I hear from an assistant behind me (maybe 5 yards away) "go back to your sidelines cry-baby"...not believeing what I just heard I turn around and see this assistant leaning over and rubbing his eyes in the cry baby sort of sign saying "wa, wa". I know the opponent player say and hear this as he was right by me.

Without a second thought flag was out and we asses a 15 USC on the coach. Later, at the half, the white hat suggested that the best way to handle that is to talk to the head coach and if it doesn't get better then you flag it. I've thought on it since then and have come to the conclusion that I did the right thing and I'd do it again in a second if the same thing happened.

I'm in my third full year as a varsity official (all as LJ). I've been insulted, called names and had my judgement questioned more time that I can count. I've never had an USC on a coach. I have very thick skin and I'm willing to allow a coach some room to vent. I will use preventative officiating in those instances and allow the HC to take care of assistants. But I draw the line at a coach taunting opposing players. Thats one of those things that in my book, gets no warning and no second chances. I'm glad I did what I did despite the objections of the rest of my crew.

You are, without a doubt, correct. This is a very appropriate flag for USC. If a player did this, it would be taunting and a USC -- should we hold coaches to LOWER standards?

[HawkeyeCubP]

[QUOTE=JugglingReferee]Then A player is kinda going for the ball, team B player kinda knocks him outta the way to get the ball. I decide to flag for interference on a loose ball. Penalty: A 1D @ PF. It was a bit of a stretch of a call, and I knew it.QUOTE]

A bit of a stretch? The only kind of interference I know of can only be called during a legal forward pass, which no fumble could ever meet the definition of. How was this explained to the coach? And was it received well?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

A bit of a stretch? The only kind of interference I know of can only be called during a legal forward pass, which no fumble could ever meet the definition of. How was this explained to the coach? And was it received well?

Maybe you didn't know that I'm Canadian. We have a rule that says when the ball is loose, playing an opponent and not the ball is a loose ball interference foul if the foul is against an opponent directly making a play to recover the ball. The penalty it AFD at PF for the non-offending team.

It did not have to be explained to the coach, and he received it well.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Maybe you didn't know that I'm Canadian. We have a rule that says when the ball is loose, playing an opponent and not the ball is a loose ball interference foul if the foul is against an opponent directly making a play to recover the ball. The penalty it AFD at PF for the non-offending team.

It did not have to be explained to the coach, and he received it well.

That makes sense then.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I agree with Rich...coach deserved the USC in sloth's situation. If he said it out into the open air after the player returned to his huddle and couldn't hear him, I would have let it go with a warning. But as soon as it's directed to the player himself, flag flies. And I make sure that the head coach is aware that his assistant acted like an 8-year old.

[parepat]

Football is a competitve sport. The best way to stop blowouts is for the other team to play better. Why ask the third string FB on the winning team to not try and score in his first carry of his life just because his team is ahead. Likewise, why should we penalize the coach when he does score. In my opinion the Connecticut rule is a joke. We want our kids to compete and reap the benefits of athletics. However, we don't want to damage their fragile self esteems by letting the result. Instead we try and protect them from losing. Why? Isn't that what athletics is all about.

What's next. In the 100 meter dash you can not get more than 10 meter ahead of your competitors or you are DQ'ed.

While I'm at it. Why is team L still playing team W if they haven't scored in seven years. Sounds like the AD might have some questions to answer. Is team W coach a jerk. Absolutely. Does he have the right to be a jerk. Absolutely! Why? Because in a fair competition he trounced team L. How do we prevent this. Team L improves.

Or I could be wrong and the teams could sing Cum Bah Yah instead.

[mcrowder]

Winning team playing their 3rd stringers and still scoring is one thing.

Winning team keeping their starters in, calling time outs with seconds to go, throwing bombs, etc is a completely different thing.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Winning team playing their 3rd stringers and still scoring is one thing.

Winning team keeping their starters in, calling time outs with seconds to go, throwing bombs, etc is a completely different thing.

As I said, coach of team W is a jerk. But, a jerk within his rights.

I've found that in a blowout Team W's 3rd string will still crush Team L's 3rd string.

[simpson]

[QUOTE=parepat]Football is a competitve sport. The best way to stop blowouts is for the other team to play better. Why ask the third string FB on the winning team to not try and score in his first carry of his life just because his team is ahead. Likewise, why should we penalize the coach when he does score. In my opinion the Connecticut rule is a joke. We want our kids to compete and reap the benefits of athletics. However, we don't want to damage their fragile self esteems by letting the result. Instead we try and protect them from losing. Why? Isn't that what athletics is all about."

In college I might agree with you. I definitely agree with you in the NFL. This is high school. These kids can't help which side of the school district line they live on. Maybe the AD shouldn't schedule this butt-kicking every year, but nothing gives a high school head coach the right to intentionally embarrass kids to satisfy his own ego trip. This guy ran a no-huddle offense, let punts roll unfielded to add to the yardage for his running back, called time-outs with a huge lead - - all intended to get a record. That's not the point of the game. What lesson did those kids on either side learn? Athletics, especially high school athletics is not "all about" being humiliated. Yes, the other team can get better. Yes, the other team should use a little more discretion in scheduling. But that does not excuse the unsportsmanlike behavior of the head coach. Sportsmanship is what high school athletics is all about.

[parepat]

[QUOTE=simpson]

Originally Posted by parepat

Football is a competitve sport. The best way to stop blowouts is for the other team to play better. Why ask the third string FB on the winning team to not try and score in his first carry of his life just because his team is ahead. Likewise, why should we penalize the coach when he does score. In my opinion the Connecticut rule is a joke. We want our kids to compete and reap the benefits of athletics. However, we don't want to damage their fragile self esteems by letting the result. Instead we try and protect them from losing. Why? Isn't that what athletics is all about."

In college I might agree with you. I definitely agree with you in the NFL. This is high school. These kids can't help which side of the school district line they live on. Maybe the AD shouldn't schedule this butt-kicking every year, but nothing gives a high school head coach the right to intentionally embarrass kids to satisfy his own ego trip. This guy ran a no-huddle offense, let punts roll unfielded to add to the yardage for his running back, called time-outs with a huge lead - - all intended to get a record. That's not the point of the game. What lesson did those kids on either side learn? Athletics, especially high school athletics is not "all about" being humiliated. Yes, the other team can get better. Yes, the other team should use a little more discretion in scheduling. But that does not excuse the unsportsmanlike behavior of the head coach. Sportsmanship is what high school athletics is all about.

Your right I shouldn't have said competiton is what it is ALL about. There is more to sports. However, I believe it to be the primary reason we play. Now in this case, as previously stated, coach of team W is a jerk. Losing is a consequence of competing. We should not legislate it. Let society's condemnation of this jerk's actions be the punishment. Better yet, maybe he'll run into a buzz saw and have it happen to him. My point is that we as officials or our state associations should not be punishing players for being to good, or having a jerk for a coach or coaches because their kids scored too many points. As much as we don't like it.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Wow. Just... wow. I've met some sorry coaches in my day (and some damn fine ones, too). But that is a new low. Not only would I have flagged this coach, but he's done in my game - I don't care what level it is, crap like that doesn't belong on the football field at all, and from a coach it's inexcusable.