2 Plays

[UmpJM]

Gentlemen,

A couple of more plays from a recent game.

For your review and commentary, the link below will take you to a sequence of 2 different plays which occurred in a recent game.

This is HS Freshman ball, FED rules.

The first play involves an ineligible receiver call; I believe the call was made on the right OT, #78.

The second play involves an illegal block below the waist. This call was made against the right OG, who was the lead blocker at the end of the play.

Neither call had a material impact on the outcome of the game. Once again, I'm just looking for some objective opinion on the calls and the proper application of the relevant rules. Thanks.

http://home.comcast.net/~john.muller/2PlaysLV.wmv

JM

[Theisey]

re: ineligible downfield:: By the book, the block did NOT continue beyond the expanded neutral zone. I would pass on this flag.

re: block below the waist:: It looks like the block was just at or just below the belt (i.e. waist) and it also does not look like the defender made any contact with his hands on the blocker.
I would flag this too.

[waltjp]

By the strictest of definitions you might have an ineligible downfield in the first play. As an Umpire I'd probably let this go.

I think the second flag is justified. It's hard to tell if the initial contact was at or below the waist but the blockers intent was to go low.

[Theisey]

Speaking of the Umpire.. It took me several viewings to even find this guy.
The wing official made the call.

[UmpJM]

Theisy,

I should mention that this game (as well as the other Freshman games I have attended) was officiated by a three-man crew; they generally took the positions that would be taken by a Linesman, a Line Judge, and a Referee (i.e. "behind" the offensive backfield), if my terminology is correct.

The IR flag was thrown by the linesman, and the IBBW flag was thrown by the Referee, who was trailing the action by about twenty yards when he threw the flag.

JM

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Theisey

Speaking of the Umpire.. It took me several viewings to even find this guy.
The wing official made the call.

I noticed that too. I'd have a stern word for a wing official working my game they threw for an interior lineman downfield.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Theisy,

I should mention that this game (as well as the other Freshman games I have attended) was officiated by a three-man crew;

Oh, now you're talking a horse of a completely different color. I've seen 3-man crews work in all sorts of alignments –

2 wings and a referee
referee, wing and umpire-ish
and just last week I saw 2 wings and an umpire.

No matter where you work you're going to miss something.

Knowing now that this was a 3 man game I'm even more convinced that the ineligible downfield should not have been called. The wing official has downfield responsibilities he should be worrying about.

And I still like the flag on the BBW. This is a real safety issue and should be called every time.

[bossman72]

non-official (or soon to be official) comment:

I would not have called a foul on the first play.

Second play was a good call. IMO, the blocker definitely intended to cut the guy down field. He even left his feet to make the block.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I agree with most: pass on the ineligible call in the first play and make the BBW call on the second. Three-man officiating is a bear. I also agree with walt...what in heaven's name is the wing official doing calling an ineligible downfield on a pass play that's so far downfield. He belongs down there--not watching the LOS.

[simpson]

Well there is no Umpire, so if someone is going to make the call on the ineligible, it has to be the wingman. The guy who threw the flag was on the far side of the play halfway between his deepest receiver and the LOS, looks like pretty good coverage to me. The OL is three yards down field when the ball is thrown. I probably would have let that go, but it wasn't a ridiculous call.

I can see why the Ref threw the BBW because from that distance, it looks like he goes low. Look at it again, first contact is with the defender's SHOULDERPAD then he leaves his feet. He doesn't dive for his knees, he lowers his shoulder, makes contact with the defender and then goes down. Bad Call.

BTW - I work as an LJ and have thrown the ineligible man down field flag on more than one occasion. Example, QB rolls to his right (away from me), left tackle drifts 8 yards down field, most of the other linemen have moved right with the QB. WR on my side goes deep middle, no receivers in the flats or short middle. QB throws to the right side, I probably have the best look at this OL and I'll help my U out.

[Warrenkicker]

Sorry but I don't think there were any fouls to call in this video. The ineligible call just wasn't worth calling as the blocker was maybe 2.5 yards down field and was just making a bad block and attempted hold.

The block was good. The contact originated above the elbow and possibly as high as the shoulder.

Working three-man means that someone needs to be busting it to get a view of these plays and not have flags flying in from way behind the play because somebody thought they saw something. Based on where this flag came from there is no way that he saw the entire play and saw the original contact. The end of the play looked bad and so it must have been a foul.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Warrenkicker

Sorry but I don't think there were any fouls to call in this video. The ineligible call just wasn't worth calling as the blocker was maybe 2.5 yards down field and was just making a bad block and attempted hold.

The block was good. The contact originated above the elbow and possibly as high as the shoulder.

Working three-man means that someone needs to be busting it to get a view of these plays and not have flags flying in from way behind the play because somebody thought they saw something. Based on where this flag came from there is no way that he saw the entire play and saw the original contact. The end of the play looked bad and so it must have been a foul.

I thought I was the only one seeing contact first high, then sliding low on the block. Glad to see I wasn't.

I wouldn't flag either play.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

I'm with the bandwagon here - no flag on the first play, but the second one's a good call.

[FootballRef05]

I agree on the first, but on the second I'm not sure, looks like the block started high and he slid down.

[OverAndBack]

With the benefit of being able to slow it down and look at it:

1 - The LOS is the 49. The TE gets as far as the other 49 and has made a block and turned around (or been turned around) and the ball goes to the sideline and pretty far downfield. As others have mentioned, maybe you should be looking there, maybe not (it's not just a lineman, it's a lineman on the other end of the line from where the wing is positioned), but I think I'd let that go. There is an end on the linesman's side of the field who's going downfield, that probably should have been where his focus was.

2 - Initial contact does appear to be on the upper chest and then sliding down to take the defender's legs out. You could make the case, I guess, and you can't go wrong in my book with a safety-type foul that could protect the next kid from getting it in the knees, but if you saw the contact from start to finish, you might very well say it started high.

3 - I do have a flag for lack of tripod, though.